Rumba Rue Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Well here's the photos. Unfortunatly the fog had lifted but it was still hazy and a lot of pic's didn't make it due to wrong position, sun, etc. Anyways, enjoy! http://www.shutterfly.com/view/albums.jsp?...e21b3dbd37c84bd Rumba Rue **May the Force Be With You** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Would love to have seen the pictures but that site requires you to register. I'm already having problems with someone using my email address to send online pharmacies ads so I'm reluctant to sign up at any site now. The Original Sin.... .....and proud of it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blowing in....Swirling around....Stirring things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarborMaster Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Me too...., Bummer..., I have been using http://www.villagephotos.com/ and with the free service., any photo can be viewed by anyone., *sigh* ., Grog .,Grog., where's me Grog. HarborMaster I am not Lost .,I am Exploring. "If you give a man a fire, he will be warm for a night, if you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 Sorry about that, I was told it was great site to use - NOT! Anyways there's a lot of pictures. Hmmmmm, post them here? It would be a lot. Let me see what I can do. Be back shortly. R. Rue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 Ok, here's the photos at a new site. http://www.villagephotos.com/pubgallery.asp?id_=225116 Rumba Rue **I had a brain once.... ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK JACK SHALAQ Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Rumba, Great pics! THANK YOU FOR THE EFFORT! BJS YER ANKLES WILL LOOK LOVELY BEHIND YER EARS LASSIE! HAR! HAR! HAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarborMaster Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Wow !!!..., Speechless really..., its a big ship.., "the Lady Washington" isnt nearly the size of Suprise.., (the lady is Hot Stuff tho) but this criiter is pretty special..,Thanks for the looksie HarborMaster I am not Lost .,I am Exploring. "If you give a man a fire, he will be warm for a night, if you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkthing Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Aye, that's a beautiful ship indeed. Sad that she's chained to the dock for tourists to gawk at; I can see she yearns for the open sea! Hmmm, I wonder how far we'd get if we "liberated" her? I'll bet if we showed up in pirate gear with cutlass and flintlocks in every hand, we could storm the ship and have 'er away before the constables could be summoned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Wow !!!..., Speechless really..., its a big ship.., The reason I took a picture of the Californian was to show the difference in immense size (I have sailed on the Californian a couple of times), between the small schooner to a huge war ship. Honestly would have took more pictures down below deck, but the darn ship was moving up and down pretty good (storm at sea- big waves coming in), and so was my stomach... Rumba Rue **The ship, the sea, ooooh the Porcelin God!** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 My God she's almost as beautifal as I had imagined (long time fan of the novels) As to her size rember her active service life ( that of her real sister ships that is) was ended with the arrival of american built super frigates So large she could't compete. By god we might not have finesse but the U.S. Navy has always been willing to give a good lesson in the application of mass force hey! THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 The HMS ROSE (please) is a middleing sort of frigate size-wise. The ship is a replica of one built in the 1750's, and would have been outclassed by the frigates of the time she was supposedly built in the Movie - they have her representing a ship of a generation later in M&C. She is tiney in comparison to a typical frigate of the 1770's (32 or 36, poor ROSE was rated 24), nevermind to the USS CONSTITUTION - she looked like an armed tender in vicinity to her. PROVIDENCE, which was built a few years later, and is still fortunately here in New England, was built with less compromises below-decks than ROSE. She is allegedly supposed to be returning to Rhode Island (eventually) - the original HMS ROSE has an interlinked history with that State and the history of the Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endkaos Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Is the Rose still docked at Shelter Island? I saw her there the weekend after she posed for the premier of M&C, November 14-16. She puttered about the harbour and docked next to the Star of India. I wished I could have seen her under full sail, but I got a lovely view of the Star of India out to sea. I took pictures too, but have been to busy to get them developed. Thanks for the kick in the pants. ~Tori Like any unmanned ship, a novice sailor will eventually steer into the wind and then in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 Is the Rose still docked at Shelter Island? The ship is docked next to the antique ferry the Berkley, near the Star of India. (see pictures) I was on the Berkley for a few of the pictures that look down on the Surprise. RumbaRue **Nautical people have their ship together** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Carrie Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Not much erudite to say, but... Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Thank you for putting the pictures up! I know she's the Rose, not the Surprise. But still, having just finished reading HMS Surprise for the first time, it's hard for me not to see her in that light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Not much erudite to say, but...Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Thank you for putting the pictures up! I know she's the Rose, not the Surprise. But still, having just finished reading HMS Surprise for the first time, it's hard for me not to see her in that light. I understand completely. She is however a replica of a ship that existed, who's bones lie off Rhode Island - I just like people to remeber that as well. What I don't understand is why they chose her over the Grand Turk, or the like, because she is tinier than the Surprise was supposed to be - IRC the 'Surprise' was a revolutionary war frigate (and yes, small and outdated when she features in the Jack Aubrey Novels), and poor old Rose was built during the F&I war, and would almost be considered a sloop of war rather than a frigate proper by the 1790's - actually, a ship of the 1750's of such a small rating would have been used up and broken up by then - it wasn't as worthwhile to keep them going as a first rate like VICTORY, almost cheaper to build anew than keep an old hogged 5th rate - they were so much liter built than a ship of the line. I know, I know, she is big compared to 'Lady Washington', and many other ships, brigs, and sloops, but when they get around to laying the keel for 'RANGER' (Paul Jones command), a sloop of war out of Portsmouth, N.H., she will be nearly as big as old ROSE. I wish somebody would build "ALLIANCE", one of the most significant Continental Navy Vessels, and rated a 36 would give those of us in the US a 'proper' sized frigate to guage size by (CONSTITUTION is behemouth frigate, and not an average representation). Has anyone heard of what the progress has been on HERIMONE? (The French Frigate that brought over Lafayette), she had her keel laid, and was ribbed and being planked in 2002, and I've heard nothing since. It is impossible to have too many 18th century ships afloat, the more the merrier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endkaos Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Wow, Salem Bob, You sound just like a naval historian. Thanks for the details on the ships and I say, no, there could never be too many Tall Ships. Just think of the mock battles if all the Tall Ships on the West Coast were able to get together? ~Tori Like any unmanned ship, a novice sailor will eventually steer into the wind and then in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endkaos Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Rumba Rue, I like your pics of the usual suspects. ~Tori Like any unmanned ship, a novice sailor will eventually steer into the wind and then in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Carrie Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 What I don't understand is why they chose her over the Grand Turk, or the like, because she is tinier than the Surprise was supposed to be - You know, that IS an interesting question. Why the Rose? Which is not impugning her at all. But how does any particular tall ship get chosen? I'm sure some of it is how much her owners are promoting her, what the insurance/liability issues are, where she's located vis a vis the filming and how likely is it that she could be moved, the friendliness of her set-up as far as filming is concerned. It must be an artform, deciding how to proceed... (Very interesting posts, Salem Bob...I've been enjoying them.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 What I don't understand is why they chose her over the Grand Turk, or the like, because she is tinier than the Surprise was supposed to be - You know, that IS an interesting question. Why the Rose? Which is not impugning her at all. But how does any particular tall ship get chosen? I'm sure some of it is how much her owners are promoting her, what the insurance/liability issues are, where she's located vis a vis the filming and how likely is it that she could be moved, the friendliness of her set-up as far as filming is concerned. It must be an artform, deciding how to proceed... (Very interesting posts, Salem Bob...I've been enjoying them.) Ahoy Cracked Carrie, An excellent question - I think it has to do with mostly 'happy coincidences' for the movie production team - How close is the ship to the ideal they want? How needy or desperate is the organization that owns the ship for money?, and How close is the ship to where we want to film it? I think Rose met criteria 1 within reason and 2 very well - Lady Washington made all 3 ( can't speak to their finances, but it takes lots of money to keep such a brig going, and invariably the trust orginizations owning them are strapped for cash - I'm doing a gig for the Providence, and donating my pay to her to help her out, these situations are typical I think), and the sets for Black Pearl had to be made as nothing close to the conception of the production team was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Simply, the Rose was purchased, not 'used', thereby solving all logistics. The Turk is too large, as the Suprise is an older, smaller vessel, even in her own period, by the time Jack Aubrey skippers her. Later, she becomes a privateer, since she's small, and politics changed while she was in the Pacific..That's the bigger picture.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Simply, the Rose was purchased, not 'used', thereby solving all logistics.The Turk is too large, as the Suprise is an older, smaller vessel, even in her own period, by the time Jack Aubrey skippers her. Later, she becomes a privateer, since she's small, and politics changed while she was in the Pacific..That's the bigger picture.... Yes, which is why item 2. was of great importance. They could not have bought her had the Rose Trust not been insolvent. That the production company has promised to bring Rose back to her East Coast home at some point is the question most New Englanders have in mind - will they keep their word? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 A couple of thoughts: I won't swear to it, but I believe the replica Rose was lengthened relative to the original in order to provide room for the engines. (As is the case with several other replicas of period vessels.) The "prehistory" of the HMS Surprise of the novels is actually rather vague. Let me quote from Bruce Trinque's excellent site, The Ships of Jack Aubrey: Through the intervention of Stephen Maturin at the Admiralty in H.M.S. Surprise, Jack Aubrey is given the small frigate HMS Surprise of 28 guns, aboard which he had served years before as a midshipman. His assignment is to carry a diplomat to the East Indies, where he uses his ship to support the China Fleet of East India Company merchantmen to successfully fight off Admiral Linois's squadron. Afterwards, Jack and the Surprise return across the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic and head northwards towards home. HMS Surprise is another genuine Royal Navy ship, although with a rather different history than that portrayed in O'Brian's novels. The historical Surprise was originally the French l'Unite, captured in 1796. Although this accords well with Jack's comment that she had been taken from the French "early in the last war" (evidently meaning the French Revolutionary War, beginning in 1793), Jack's other descriptions of her past do not so well match history. His mention of having served aboard her as a midshipman would require her service in the Royal Navy during the 1780's, and his frequent references to her great age are not appropriate for a ship launched in 1794. (In a later novel, however, by way of contrast Jack does refer to her capture by the Royal Navy in 1796.) Although the Surprise had originally been rated in the Royal Navy after her capture as a frigate of the Fifth Rate carrying 34 long guns, in 1798 she was reclassified as a 28-gun Sixth Rate. In one important aspect the fictional description of the Surprise agrees with history: while Captain Edward Hamilton had been in command, he ordered the installation of a mainmast of a size usually specified for a 36-gun Fifth Rate frigate, giving her a unique appearance. The real Surprise was sold out of the service in 1802, three years before Jack Aubrey fictionally takes command. The action of Linois against the China Fleet was genuine, although the real Surprise did not take part, and it actually occurred in 1804 while the fictional Jack Aubrey was still in command of the Polychrest. The data below are for HMS Surprise (Lyon 247): Launched Length Keel Breadth Hold Tonnage 1794 126' 108' 6 1/8" 31' 8" 10' 1/2" 578 73/94 The length here is the length on the gun deck. For comparison with the replica Rose, see: http://www.tallshiprose.org/info/shipspecs.html Length Overall 179 feet Length On Deck 135 feet Height of Main Mast 130 feet Displacement 500 tons Sail Area 13,000 sq feet Draft 13 feet Beam 32 feet The Rose actually seems to be somewhat longer than the historical Surprise, but a very close match overall. It should be noted here that while O'Brian was a stickler for accuracy in some areas, time wasn't one of them. He expanded and collapsed time at will as it suited his needs. To get a really good feel for the size of the historical Surprise next to other frigates (as well as other types of naval vessels), see: http://members.aol.com/batrnq/aubrey4.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 A couple of thoughts:I won't swear to it, but I believe the replica Rose was lengthened relative to the original in order to provide room for the engines. (As is the case with several other replicas of period vessels.) The "prehistory" of the HMS Surprise of the novels is actually rather vague. Let me quote from Bruce Trinque's excellent site, The Ships of Jack Aubrey: Through the intervention of Stephen Maturin at the Admiralty in H.M.S. Surprise, Jack Aubrey is given the small frigate HMS Surprise of 28 guns, aboard which he had served years before as a midshipman. His assignment is to carry a diplomat to the East Indies, where he uses his ship to support the China Fleet of East India Company merchantmen to successfully fight off Admiral Linois's squadron. Afterwards, Jack and the Surprise return across the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic and head northwards towards home. HMS Surprise is another genuine Royal Navy ship, although with a rather different history than that portrayed in O'Brian's novels. The historical Surprise was originally the French l'Unite, captured in 1796. Although this accords well with Jack's comment that she had been taken from the French "early in the last war" (evidently meaning the French Revolutionary War, beginning in 1793), Jack's other descriptions of her past do not so well match history. His mention of having served aboard her as a midshipman would require her service in the Royal Navy during the 1780's, and his frequent references to her great age are not appropriate for a ship launched in 1794. (In a later novel, however, by way of contrast Jack does refer to her capture by the Royal Navy in 1796.) Although the Surprise had originally been rated in the Royal Navy after her capture as a frigate of the Fifth Rate carrying 34 long guns, in 1798 she was reclassified as a 28-gun Sixth Rate. In one important aspect the fictional description of the Surprise agrees with history: while Captain Edward Hamilton had been in command, he ordered the installation of a mainmast of a size usually specified for a 36-gun Fifth Rate frigate, giving her a unique appearance. The real Surprise was sold out of the service in 1802, three years before Jack Aubrey fictionally takes command. The action of Linois against the China Fleet was genuine, although the real Surprise did not take part, and it actually occurred in 1804 while the fictional Jack Aubrey was still in command of the Polychrest. The data below are for HMS Surprise (Lyon 247): Launched Length Keel Breadth Hold Tonnage 1794 126' 108' 6 1/8" 31' 8" 10' 1/2" 578 73/94 The length here is the length on the gun deck. For comparison with the replica Rose, see: http://www.tallshiprose.org/info/shipspecs.html Length Overall 179 feet Length On Deck 135 feet Height of Main Mast 130 feet Displacement 500 tons Sail Area 13,000 sq feet Draft 13 feet Beam 32 feet The Rose actually seems to be somewhat longer than the historical Surprise, but a very close match overall. It should be noted here that while O'Brian was a stickler for accuracy in some areas, time wasn't one of them. He expanded and collapsed time at will as it suited his needs. To get a really good feel for the size of the historical Surprise next to other frigates (as well as other types of naval vessels), see: http://members.aol.com/batrnq/aubrey4.htm Hi Deacon, You are correct about the length of ROSE. PROVIDENCE, which was built a few years later, by the efforts of the same fellow, has far fewer compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Another thought occurs to me. The moviemakers may have been influenced in their choice by the gorgeous photos of the Rose in the galleries at the Travels With The Tall Ship Rose site. And yes, the fact that the organization was having trouble making ends meet made it an apparent win-win deal. But she looks like she could use a bit of help at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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