Why don't we see more of these?

[Commodore Swab]

Most everything you seem to see regarding (most being over 80%) weapons or at least what I have noticed are flintlock whether they are english or french the primary difference being doglock. However, considering that most of the new world was colonized by Spain I would think the Spanish Miquelet lock would be a little bit more prevelant. Do you supose it is due to the fact that being a british colony that is what we naturally associate with? I wonder honestly if you were a pirate what percantage of the arms aboard as most of them would of been captured would of truly been flintlocks?

Logically I would assume that most of the settlements would be Spanish with most of the settlers carrying weapons from home (ie the family gun) and there would be no real consistancy. You might find a beautiful 1620's hunting gun passed down in a royal house next to modern calvary piece in the next house. I also imangine that pirates came from all walks of life as well as regions, just thinking of the languages spoken would be another topic. . .

[blackjohn]

When I started doing this, you were lucky to find any period style pieces. People were content to use Brown Besses and Charlevilles. As the hobby has progressed, the number of people producing period muskets increased to what is available today. Sure, I'd love to have una escopeta con patilla, but I know I'm going to have to have it made special, which means extra dinero, and since I'm not even sure I consider myself reenactor anymore, I don't see myself doing it.

Or the simple answer... supply and demand.

[Joe Pyrat]

I was shown one of the Spanish muskets recently. It was love at first sight...

[Commodore Swab]

Beautiful, how do I say I WANT

Actually though, I am guessing that at least the lock is from the rifle shop. Any way to find out which one? It looks to be the perfect size for the blunderbuss I want to build.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I agree with Blackjohn. The rifleshop has the lock... but you are talking a pricey piece when its all said and done. There was a really cool Handmortar for sale a while back made by B Coogle that had the miquelet lock...

smokin!

[michaelsbagley]

Another thing one sees very little of (and has become a bit of a personal fancy) is the snaphaunce. Having done a great deal of research on colonial militias and soldiers over the last year, I am starting to come to the conclusion that snaphaunces were still very much in use right up to the early 1700s, and were likely one of the more dominant weapons of militias and soldiers at least up to the 1670s, if not the 1680s.

Captain Mark has a nice snaphaunce, but I'm guessing if I try to obscond with it, he won't let me play on his boat any more... So for now I just admire it and try to plot how to get my own.

Another style that one sees very little of, is the wheel lock... However this may change as I saw some buss on some of the colonial forumks that I am on that Loyalist (or perhaps one or some of the other India mad gun importers) are working on getting a production wheel lock pistol made and sold through them.

[CaptainSatan]

Another style that one sees very little of, is the wheel lock...

I love wheel locks! One of the reasons that you don't see them very often is because they are a lot

more complicated to build than flintlocks, dog locks, etc. Plus if you lose your key you're screwed.

If you over wind the spring you're screwed. Those flaws aside. In my opinion the wheel lock is the

fastest ignition system after cap locks and modern firearms.

In the next few years I hope to order a custom brace of wheel lock pistols to annoy SCA people.

The earliest documentation for wheel locks is around 1500 in one of Da Vinci's notebooks. It is not

known if he invented the idea of using a wheel lock as an ignition system or if he was just sketching

his own version.

Edited May 28, 2009 by CaptainSatan

[Quartermaster James]

In the next few years I hope to order a custom brace of wheel lock pistols to annoy SCA people.

Anything that annoys SCA people is a good cause.

[Captain_MacNamara]

Hehe... I'm an SCA person, and even *I* love annoying the "SCA Period Nazi's".

Most of whom are at the very *least* either wearing modern shoes, timepieces, and using modern camp gear...

[michaelsbagley]

Hehe... I'm an SCA person, and even *I* love annoying the "SCA Period Nazi's".

Most of whom are at the very *least* either wearing modern shoes, timepieces, and using modern camp gear...

Oh I am sooooo with you guys on this account... while there are a few (very few) top notch SCA folks, I have gotten a bit of grief over wearing my perfectly researched and very well made gear, because it is 100 years (+/-) after the SCA period... It's hard to be patient with people ribbing you for being 100 years post period when said person is wearing a "T-tunic" which has no real provenence in history that I have ever been able to find.

On the whole though, I do like the SCA, most of the folks there are really laid back and good to talk to. It is only a very few rare jerks that will say something unpleasant about being SCA period correct... It is just a shame those few mouth-pieces do such a good job of making themselves look like some sort of majority when they are in fact rather rare.

[Captain_MacNamara]

Aye... and those few are either the "Brasshat" (read asshat) crowd, or members of the Baronial Asskissing Guild.

I blow 'em off and 'ave fun anyway. The SCA is a unique animal, and it's where I fit the most.

[CaptainSatan]

I enjoy playing SCA. And I agree that most people are there to drink, fornicate, camp, and dress funny.

In other words they are there to have a good time. I only have trouble with people that think that they

are actually a knight, baron, duke, what ever.

I keep photocopies of all my documentation to throw at idiots who have never researched anything past

the internet or their junior college library. My favourite tale of SCA jackassry was at an event where some

fool wearing a polyester tunic, black sweat pants, and ye olde Reboks entered my camp after a spying a

Coke can on my table from fifty paces away. I was in the process of mixing a double Roman Coke for my then

paramour. Lord Rebok then proceeded to lecture me about spoiling the event for other people by displaying

my soda porn. If I had been at a serious historical event I would have mixed the drink in my tent. But if I am

at an event where people sleep in earth pimples and wear polycotton costumes and less than 05%

even make an effort to wear something resembling period foot wear. I'll mix my bloody cola grog openly in

MY CAMP! Before disposing of the can.

That's why I want wheel locks. They are period weapons that I can gleefully document.

Plus guns in general were the death blow to the mounted knight. The meanest peasant could take out the

baddest knight with a little lead ball.

Edited May 28, 2009 by CaptainSatan

[Brit.Privateer]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that you would see a ton of Spanish weapons just because of the many Spanish prizes taken and the many Spanish colonies. Just because the Spanish were there doesn't mean they were supplied by the Spanish. There was a high reputation in the new world for smuggling. Why? Because Spain couldn't supply its West Indies colonies well enough to meet the West Indies colonist demand for goods. So, what often happens when a good is in demand, and the legal way of obtaining them (for supposedly it is illegal to trade unless through the mother country, because of mercantilism) isn't enough? Smuggling! Including a kinds of manufactured goods, weaponry would probably be in demand to, for Spanish weaponry (unless produced by artisans in some particular parts of Spain) has a reputation for being poorly manufactured. If I were a ship owner in Spain, and I knew I had to defend my ship against attackers probably at some point, unless I was a cheapo kind of merchant (which there were plenty of as well), I would probably buy a few decent weapons, if not for my crew at least for my own defense. English and French weapons could meet that need, and there were plenty of officials around who were willing to turn a blind eye as needed. That's not to say that there would be Spanish weapons as well, but I could see a arms chest on a civilian Spanish ship being a mix of Spanish and non-Spanish weapons.

[callenish gunner]

Some of the most prolific private arms dealers were none of the above...... but the Dutch and Flemish (the Bloody Lowlanders )they took from all countries designs and mass produced the most efficient systems they could find. They didn't concern themselves as to whom they sold to as long as their Gelt (gold) was good ....they supplied both the English & the Spanish and the Flemish sold to the French to defend them against the Dutch.

[MarkG]

Another style that one sees very little of, is the wheel lock...

I love wheel locks! One of the reasons that you don't see them very often is because they are a lot

more complicated to build than flintlocks, dog locks, etc. Plus if you lose your key you're screwed.

If you over wind the spring you're screwed. Those flaws aside. In my opinion the wheel lock is the

fastest ignition system after cap locks and modern firearms.

In the next few years I hope to order a custom brace of wheel lock pistols to annoy SCA people.

The earliest documentation for wheel locks is around 1500 in one of Da Vinci's notebooks. It is not

known if he invented the idea of using a wheel lock as an ignition system or if he was just sketching

his own version.

I have two wheelock pistols. Neither is reliable (especially the one with the broken spring). The spanner isn't a problem. I could make one from a socket wrench if I needed to. They don't over-wind. You only give them a bit over a half-turn. It stops when fully cocked.

The two that I have were made in the 1980s by J. Schroter. They produce a big spark but most of it misses the primer. I know other people with the same locks who have the same problem.

I think that Dale Shin in California makes wheelocks. Jamestown has several pistols, both saphaunce and wheelock, that work well. The wheelock is finicky about being cleaned and has to be put together just right or it fails.

There was a German company that made reliable wheelocks in the 1970s and 1980s. I saw a few of these when I first started reenacting. One had a broken spring.

I suspect that the broken springs happen because these are small-run weapons and the makers don't get the problems worked out. Once you get a good spring then it lasts. It took 4-5 springs from Schroter before I got a good one on my older pistol.

Mark

[CaptainSatan]

I have two wheelock pistols.

Do you have any pictures that you can share with us?

If any of you live in the North Texas area I highly recommend this guys work.

Fort Comanche Frontier Firearms

His work is far superior to the Italian and Indian imports that most of us are use to playing with.

I bought a matchlock pistol from him several years ago.

Edited May 29, 2009 by CaptainSatan

[john rackam]

Wish I could get something like your weapons over here

A working flintlock would be nice, even the "toys" are hard to get

(bloody kids), All I've got are 4 replica cutless and a couple o Pistols (toys)

[Tartan Jack]

It would be fun to pull out an "Indiana Jones" and just blast the knight in the badly made plastic armour.

(Kinda like Han Solo and Storm troopers. Same actor. He shoots first.)

[Grymm]

Wish I could get something like your weapons over here

A working flintlock would be nice, even the "toys" are hard to get

(bloody kids), All I've got are 4 replica cutless and a couple o Pistols (toys)

Where are you?

In the UK there's http://www.derbyshirearms.co.uk/pages/new_range.html and he's doing a gorgeous wheel lock too.

http://www.henrykrank.com/muzzle_loading_p..._long_guns.html have been going for ages.......love the blunderbuss amoungst many others.

Black powder and relevant licences (shotgun for a smoothbore musket, firearms ticket for pistols and anything shorter than 24" barrel) are needed but not that difficult to obtain so long as you've not been naughty in the past, have a responsible adult to vouch for you and have a cabinet.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Grymm

[Grymm]

Ah Kaaaaarnaaaaaaaall.

http://www.ukpiratebrotherhood.co.uk/forum/index.php is a UK pirate forum and there are a few piratey type groups dotted around the country as well as more general late 17thC and early-mid 18thC mobs.

You just missed Lulworth pirate festival which by all accounts was a great crack, I missed it on acount of having to be tudor elsewhere....bugger! But it's all out there waiting for you to get involved, if you need any other contacts pm me.

Avast behind! Grymm

[Hawkyns]

Ah, Bash the SCA time again, eh? I love the people who like to bash the Society while wearing bloody cocked hats, justaucorps, and carrying flintlocks. Yes, that would a large number of the socalled "pyrates" who attend events that are supposed to be pre 1600. No the Society is not perfect. In my 30 years as a member, a number of us have done our best to make it better, and we have had some success. Come to me or my house and give me a hard time and you'll get it right back. Show up in non period kit just to be an asshole and you will find it's more trouble than it's worth. Show up on my gun line at Pennsic with a flintlock and you will be asked to return it to your tent. Yes, I'm the Master Gunner.

To return to the subject at hand. The miquelet appears to be one sold by Dixie a few years ago. Supposedly, they were from a batch produced for export to Africa in the late 19th century. I've got one sitting in storage now, waiting for the right inspiration to hit. I'm thinking that I may turn it into a grenade launcher if I can get the right parts.

I have two of the Schroter wheellocks, a rifled light horse carbine, and a German pistol. Both decent pieces, but if I want to do any serious shooting, I'll use my matchlocks. I've got one that was produced for a german shooting team in the 70's, and an early John Buck convertible. 4 inch groupings at 50 yds, unpatched, a .595 ball in a .62 cal barrel, 75 gr of FF.

Hawkyns

[CaptainSatan]

Ah, Bash the SCA time again, eh?

Most of the negative comments were aimed at the self appointed authenticity police and not the SCA as a whole

As far as showing up in non period kit, that describes 95% of most people attending an American SCA event. I enjoy going to SCA events. But the historical

accuracy is only slightly better than a ren faire (minus the rubber elf ears, plastic vampire fangs, and fairy wings). Most the people run around in cotton T-tunics

and tennis shoes like 2nd rate background players in a home made Xena tribute video that was shot by 8th graders and posted on You Tube.

Edited June 5, 2009 by CaptainSatan

[Captain_MacNamara]

Most of the negative comments were aimed at the self appointed authenticity police and not the SCA as a whole

As far as showing up in non period kit, that describes 95% of most people attending an American SCA event. I enjoy going to SCA events. But the historical

accuracy is only slightly better than a ren faire (minus the rubber elf ears, plastic vampire fangs, and fairy wings). Most the people run around in cotton T-tunics

and tennis shoes like 2nd rate background players in a home made Xena tribute video that was shot by 8th graders and posted on You Tube.

I concur. Although yes, I am one of those who play slightly out of period for the most part. I come as close as I can, research-wise, and as close as I can afford to SCA period. Yes, I carry a flintlock. It is the closest thing to period I can afford... at least it's not a bloody caplock like most I see carried in one's belt. Like our info page says, "We welcome pirates of all cultures, but the time-frame we officially represent is approximately 1400-1600. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, and we're NOT authenticity freaks. It helps, however, to be as accurate as you can for the period you portray."

All I ask of my crew is to be as accurate/period as you are able. I don't allow the "day glow" dresses and tye-dye pants, nor the doo-rags covered with lots of skulls and crossbones. Alot of that kind of thing around here is widely "accepted", yet those who actually make an effort are usually the ones who get nitpicked whilst the "fun loving" assclowns in their day-glow gear slide right on by.

And Master Hawkins... if by some miracle we are ever able to show up on your firing line, we'll just bring the cannon... I'll give you the respect enough to leave the flintlock back in the tent. Although I would *love* to be able to afford a nice wheel lock.

[CaptainSatan]

I think a doglock from around 1640 is reasonable compromise. It's a little post period for SCA use.

But it would blend in better than a nylon tent or polycotton garb

Edited June 5, 2009 by CaptainSatan

[Quartermaster James]

Ah, Bash the SCA time again, eh? I love the people who like to bash the Society while wearing bloody cocked hats, justaucorps, and carrying flintlocks. Yes, that would a large number of the socalled "pyrates" who attend events that are supposed to be pre 1600. <SNIP>

Hawkyns

Fair enough Hawkyns. The gauntlet was thrown.

I would say, however, that if my experience could speak it would say that folks like you are the exception and not the rule. My encounters with the SCA have not included meeting anybody with your passion for the hobby, nor likely for history at all.

And now back to your regularly scheduled topic...