More shoe questions - what do you think of these?

[Silkie McDonough]

Thank you Michael, that will be helpful to ...well to me.

[theM.A.dDogge]

I keep wondering if pirates may have only worn shoes when they were in town or having portraits made. The reasons behind my thinking come from having trying to walk much less run in sand or jungle terrain. Boots are simply safer and more comfortable not only in keeping sand out but also the vermin on the ground. Even barefoot on a beach makes more sense than shoes. As for work aboard ship, I feel there is no need for shoes even climbing the rigging and this comes from personal experience. The only problem I would see is a hot deck. IMO Shoes of any kind were a valuable commodity and most likely worn only when nessary so as to not wear them out prematurely. I consider my feet tender but I don't have a problem walking around barefoot all day at an event (I try to avoid asphalt) or even on coral rock (not a reef mind you). I also believe shoes due to their impraticality were a matter of class, wearing shoes was a way of establishing that you did not need to do manual labor. Boots were common before GAoP and were common after, why would there be a timeframe when everyone switched to shoes?

Having said this walking around in a pair of anything might be more comfortable might not depending on the event. I personally have a pair of boots (more a ren style) that I will be taking to PiP but only wearing for parade, or at night.

me brother and i...having the weekend playin in the riggin....with me high heeled period shoes(from loyalist)...me opinions of wearin shoes on deck.....

the gang plank got wet and SLICK...with the leather soles...actually needed the runners and heel to slow me down....

but in the riggin.....that high heel worked perfectly as in a stirrup....held me foot in place....no fear of slippage.....tried it barefoot....no archsupport.

but then again on the spars....back to slick again....tho most likely would have been back on a rope...so back to usin shoes again....

my personal view.....is might have been job specific....to who wore shoes on board as some(tending on the duty) may have not.

Edited May 18, 2009 by M.A.d'Dogge

[Commodore Swab]

my personal view.....is might have been job specific....to who wore shoes on board as some(tending on the duty) may have not.

I completly agree with that, have you tried hauling on a line while on a wet deck in shoes or boots for that matter?

[LadyBarbossa]

What about these?

The two from 1720s look like a period type of half-chap. I think this makes more sense as you can add and remove when the time requires, store easily, etc... Be easier to keep than clunky boots. But how common they would be... especially onboard ships... :::Shrugs::: any of these found?

~Lady B

I think the fact that all three pairs of those boots are depicted with stirrups speaks volumes about the use of boots in our period.... And to be honest, the second and third image in that set looks more like shoes and gaitors than boots in my opinion anyways...

Oh, exactly.

And as I said, a type of period half-chaps. Still, I know I fancy the idea of these rather than cumbersome boots. When no need for the boots, remove the half-chaps. Protects the fine stockings I'm sure. Or at least used by the smugglers on horseback perhaps.

And Dogge has a point there. Footwear depending upon what you did on board. Course, was researched that during the Rev War, some people went barefoot even when they had shoes to save their said footwear from wear and tear to use them for a more necessary situation that required the footwear.

~Lady B

[Quartermaster James]

Just visited the Fugawee site for the first time in well over a year.

They have a new (new to me, at least) shoe they call the Lexington.

Basically it's the Concord, but 5/8" deeper to accommodate inserts.

Has any among us tried this shoe and/or show with inserts combo?

[MarkG]

What about these?

The two from 1720s look like a period type of half-chap. I think this makes more sense as you can add and remove when the time requires, store easily, etc... Be easier to keep than clunky boots. But how common they would be... especially onboard ships... :::Shrugs::: any of these found?

~Lady B

I think the fact that all three pairs of those boots are depicted with stirrups speaks volumes about the use of boots in our period.... And to be honest, the second and third image in that set looks more like shoes and gaitors than boots in my opinion anyways...

Oh, exactly.

And as I said, a type of period half-chaps. Still, I know I fancy the idea of these rather than cumbersome boots. When no need for the boots, remove the half-chaps. Protects the fine stockings I'm sure. Or at least used by the smugglers on horseback perhaps.

And Dogge has a point there. Footwear depending upon what you did on board. Course, was researched that during the Rev War, some people went barefoot even when they had shoes to save their said footwear from wear and tear to use them for a more necessary situation that required the footwear.

~Lady B

That was also the origin of bucket topped boots. You pulled them up when riding then folded them down when dismounted. These became stylish, even without a horse, during the 2nd quarter of the 17th century. A buccaneer who wanted to look stylish might pull these on for walking around town but they were not associated with sailors at all.

Cavalry started using heavy knee-length boots during this same period. These were heavy enough to deflect a sword stroke so they stopped wearing armor below the knee. The armor from that period is referred to as a 3/4 suit since it does not cover the lower leg.

There was also the coachman's boot. The coachman would ride on one of the horses, controlling them. He wore an extra heavy boot on the leg that was in-between the horses to protect his leg. It looks like a bucket top boot but is much heavier and was not worn in pairs.

Mark

[Capt. Sterling]

Well for what its worth, the translation on the last item calls it a leg guard not a boot and states supple... so it sounds more like a gaiter type item...I wonder if the loose tops, what looks like to protect the knee eventually turned into the knee wraps worn by Rev War dragoons over their breeches but under their boots...

[Commodore Swab]

While on this topic I recalled this illustration, dated 1725. I found it intestering that they had shoes, buckles, and then sea boots which are distinctly not bucket boots.

[theM.A.dDogge]

While on this topic I recalled this illustration, dated 1725. I found it intestering that they had shoes, buckles, and then sea boots which are distinctly not bucket boots.

are ya sure??....they kinda look like "buckets" pulled alla way up.... i thought "sea boots" were just made differently...kinda keepin your feetsy dry...but not so good for anything else???...kinda hand made-ish

anyone got any references to What made SEA BOOTS...SEA boots ...and not just BOOTS????

[Commodore Swab]

You are right I can't be "sure" but my thoughts are along these lines . . .

The stockings pictured next to them seem to be drawn so it shows them going over the knees, if they are roughly the same scale this would make the boots much shorter. My thoughts are similar to yours. I think a "seaboot" a simple most likely hand made boot which would have a low heel aiding in holding one in place climbing but still allow for one to walk with a flatter foot on a rolling deck. There is no need to bring them above the knee but I would think that a height sufficient that slops or whatever pants are being worn would cover. Most importantly they should be made as waterproof as possible.

So here are my thoughts on bucket vs sea boots

Bucket Sea Boots

To the knee folded down Shorter below the knee

Higher heel Low heel

Comfortable soft leather Waterproofed

Of course this is just my opinion

[Jack Roberts]

If memory serves me right that is a Spanish document for Spanish sailors. It's some of the only evidence of boots that I can remember.

I've kinda discounted it only because I'm not doing a Spanish impression but I would love to research more. I don't know the Spanish language so it's hard for me to research some of those items. Still the document in question is a very interesting one.

[callenish gunner]

Heavily waxed boots like those are listed as Sailors boots circa 1740 in a seamanship Museums in both Dordrecht and Rotterdam in the Netherlands where I spent time sketching items on a trip in '01 .....

[theM.A.dDogge]

any pics or descriptions as to what they looked like?