Jib Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I know this was in Pirates Magazine but I think it has merit. Do you think todays Outlaw Bikers (criminals) could be compared to the Pirates of the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Interesting parallel. Something a social psychologist might have some take on. Red Jessie??? Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 :::shakes head::: Naw... more like modern day outlaws like Jesse James and Billy the Kid. But worse. Folks who don't give a damn and make their own rules, doesn't matter who's in the way. Worse than pirates I think. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Been there, done that, got the scars and all the t-shirts too. Short answer; no. Completely different lifestyle not even close to pyracy. Two patch clubs behind me now. Seen and done things we won't discuss here. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 It's more like dudes who knock over convenience stores at 3am, rob ATM machines, or hijack truckloads of cigarettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Not unless they can ride on water! Unless, of course, you're defining "pyrates" simply as criminal gangs. Seriously, on land you're just a common thief. It's pyrates of the present that compare to pyrates of the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stMate Matt Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ive known a few hardcore bikers in my day. I have lived near two different bars that are quite teritorial. I have noticed that the members of a biker gang act similar to a pirate crew. There is a ranking system and things are spread out evenly(most of the time) between the members. Just a thought... -1st Mate of Pirates Magazine -Bladesmith/Owner of That Works Studio http://youtube.com/thatworks thatworks.shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Funny... many think they are the modern day heirs of piracy. In my years I've had the chance to enjoy many a strange evening with bikers, including Hell's Angels and the Banditos. As we sat there in our respective gear enjoying beers together, a Hell's Angels explained to me why they liked our band of pirates so much. They felt a kindred spirit with us. Animal can back that up. We used to have some of the best gatherings with the bikers at festivals and events we hit. Here's a bit from my upcoming memoirs about one particular event in Port Townsend, Washington, the Rhodie Festival: "Bikers love pirates. I was told once by a Hell’s Angels member once that they see themselves as the modern day pirates. So even though any one of them could kill any one of us at a moment’s notice, we always partied well together. It was in this bar that this became very evident. We were all sucking down drinks when the head of the bikers gets up on the bar. He’s going to do a little toast. So up jumps Kenny Baker, one of our pirates to stand with him. One thing leads to another as the joking goes back and forth and before I know it, Kenny rips the side of the guy’s jeans from the hem to the waistband. All I heard was a big ripping sound and the room went silent. I turned towards the bar. Without missing a beat, Kenny rips the other leg the same way. Another big rip. More silence. I am standing here next to a group of bikers. I’m a lowly mailroom clerk that can barely lick a stamp, let alone any one of the bikers in this room. I think to myself, “Wow, I’m going to die right here in this little bar.” Finally, the head biker guy lets out a huge roar of laughter. He thought it was funny that his pair of jeans was now in shreds. He hoisted a toast to Kenny. We all toasted back. And then everyone started buying everyone else a drink. When I try to explain what it was like being a pirate, I often point to this moment in time. If anyone had done this in civilian attire, they would have found us in the alley behind, riddled with gunshots or stab wounds. But as a pirate, we got away with this. I often say it’s like having the old “E” tickets to the best rides at Disneyland. You can’t pay for the experiences you get being part of this magic we call pirating. Seeing things as a spectator just isn’t the same. Port Townsend always seems to have a Kenny Baker story surrounding it. A couple of the wilder pirates – Kenny and Jerry Ceis – would always be dreaming up something big to do. One of their great ideas was to have a fight up on the top deck of the Duck. Then the captain would fire the shotgun and one of the guys would fall dead into a net that was behind the Duck. One of the duties of the candidates was to hold the net and catch the guy who was falling. The show went perfectly in Port Townsend. There was only one problem. Kenny didn’t bother telling anyone that he was going to do this stunt. So when he fell off the Duck, he smashed right into the pavement. There was no net. One of the guys had to rush him off to the hospital as we continued bravely on in the parade. We were very concerned about Kenny, of course. At the next bar we toasted him, had the appropriate moment of silence and said how much we would miss him. Kenny didn’t die of course. None of us did back then. We sincerely believed we were immortal and unstoppable. We could all do the dumbest things in the world and come bouncing back to life. " -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 It is a completely unique culture all to itself. it cannot be studied or understood from the outside lookin in, period. Unless you've been inside the culture, all you got is speculation and conjecture. NO, they are not like pyrates. you may be able to bend some smilarities to suit yourself, but it ain't. 8 years under two clubs, I think I know a little about it. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Bo and others with Biker heritage: Without making you uneasy can you share a few reasons why Bikers are not like Pyrates? Doesn't have to be personal experiences... Could be just examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) I have noticed that the members of a biker gang act similar to a pirate crew. There is a ranking system and things are spread out evenly(most of the time) between the members.Just a thought... Well, if that's all it takes, then most small offices are similar to a pyrate crew. Edited March 10, 2009 by Quartermaster James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) Bo and others with Biker heritage: Without making you uneasy can you share a few reasons why Bikers are not like Pyrates? Doesn't have to be personal experiences... Could be just examples. Actually, I'd be rather interested in hearing why people think bikers are like pyrates. Sure would help me understand what yall think pyrates are! Is it just that it's easy to group all "outlaws" into one homogeneous mass? Edited March 10, 2009 by Quartermaster James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 During my short stint with the Washington State Corrections Department as a "guard" I worked in the community work release program. It was still prison with the ability to get out in the community to seek work and start reentering society. I never had a problem dealing with bikers and the guys who really did time. The problems were with the younger inmates who were in for petty crimes, burglary, dui, minor drug charges and the gang bangers. I'll take a biker or "lifer" before the rest. Maybe that's why I have a hard time putting up with the petty crap with the younger guys at work. They have no time under their belt. Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hmm. I was sure I put a post on here a few minutes ago. Oh well, In short, outlaw bikers in modern times are not even the same breed as old school outlaws were twenty years ago. These punks ain't got a clue what loyalty means. Old school outlaws were not in it for the money, that was just a perk, it was a solidarity thing. A rebellion against social constraints if you like. We seldom wanted to interact with the rest of the world and did things amongst ourselves and against the rivals. We provided for and protected each other and our families. We mostly all held full time jobs and dealt in things that I won't go into here, but we kept it to ourselves and between the hippy drug culture and even the high end folks (who didn't want to be discovered). Pyrates were doing what they were doing in hopes of scoring some profit for the most part. Pyrates were mostly short-term crews that shifted often and came and went. They lived as a crew aboard ships with no-one but themselves to care for. Biker clubs were, and still are in the case of outlaws, lifetime commitments. If you wanted out you got beaten out. There is so much to it I could never explain all the differences. It's like how would you know what it's like in China unless you have lived there. yeah, you can read national geographic and look at the pictures, but that won't take you there. Modern culture can be compared to past culture in some ways, but there will always be vast differences in the reasons and situations that people become or do the things they do. More confused than before? Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hmm. I was sure I put a post on here a few minutes ago. Oh well, In short, outlaw bikers in modern times are not even the same breed as old school outlaws were twenty years ago. These punks ain't got a clue what loyalty means. Old school outlaws were not in it for the money, that was just a perk, it was a solidarity thing. A rebellion against social constraints if you like. We seldom wanted to interact with the rest of the world and did things amongst ourselves and against the rivals. We provided for and protected each other and our families. We mostly all held full time jobs and dealt in things that I won't go into here, but we kept it to ourselves and between the hippy drug culture and even the high end folks (who didn't want to be discovered). Pyrates were doing what they were doing in hopes of scoring some profit for the most part. Pyrates were mostly short-term crews that shifted often and came and went. They lived as a crew aboard ships with no-one but themselves to care for. Biker clubs were, and still are in the case of outlaws, lifetime commitments. If you wanted out you got beaten out. There is so much to it I could never explain all the differences. It's like how would you know what it's like in China unless you have lived there. yeah, you can read national geographic and look at the pictures, but that won't take you there. Modern culture can be compared to past culture in some ways, but there will always be vast differences in the reasons and situations that people become or do the things they do. More confused than before?Bo Thanks Bo! I think you explained yourself very well. Perhaps it is one of those "You had to be there" experiences that most of us will never have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Bo and others with Biker heritage: Without making you uneasy can you share a few reasons why Bikers are not like Pyrates? Doesn't have to be personal experiences... Could be just examples. Actually, I'd be rather interested in hearing why people think bikers are like pyrates. Sure would help me understand what yall think pyrates are! Is it just that it's easy to group all "outlaws" into one homogeneous mass? I guess for myself I thought that common elements between the two (pirates and outlaw bikers) included a break with tradition and a rebellious nature, the desire to profit from crime (pirates took more than just coin from victims: food, drink, garments, tools, weapons, etc), a nomadic lifestyle, violence (or the threat of violence), symbols (skulls, bones, images of devil, death), dependance upon a mode of transportation(ships/ Bikes), and a certain bravado. Hey, I could be wrong. I've never been a Biker. I don't have the insight that some of you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stMate Matt Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 All I know is that it seems that I sell 1 cutlass to a biker for every pirate that buys one.... Whatever that means. -1st Mate of Pirates Magazine -Bladesmith/Owner of That Works Studio http://youtube.com/thatworks thatworks.shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 There is always that obvious relationship through "outlaw" status from the social viewpoint. That does create the connection I guess you are talking about? true, outlaws are outlaws, but the culture is still varied. On the side i just wanted to point out that I saw both my clubs fold-up colors at the end of their existance. the first time was forced on us from outside forces. Some of ours pissed in the wrong boots of bigger and wider ranging forces than ours and we got the ultimatum of folding colors or becoming extinct. The second club that many of us rolled over into after that just fell apart as people got older, wiser, and became more responsible for themselves I guess. just lost interest in the end. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 I suppose pirates didn't have an option to return to 'normal' society if they tired of the sweet trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Thighbiter Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 While not a member of a three part patched club, I been around enough of 'em. Only a peripheral similarity, to my mind. A better comparison would be pirate to bank robber of the 1860s and up. Money and notoriety. Thats the ticket. Pirate music at it's best, from 1650 onwards The Brigands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Really now! Who, today, takes from both the large company and small person alike? Whose profit is always at another's expense? Who uses specialized tactics to their own device? Who share superficial camaraderie but turn on one another at a profit's motive? Who can never return to "normal" society? And, Who is vilified and despised by noble and pauper alike? Am I the only one who understands that today's equivalent to pyrates of old are lawyers!?!? Edited March 17, 2009 by Quartermaster James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Thighbiter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Investment Bankers - (soon to be on the Endangered Species List) Pirate music at it's best, from 1650 onwards The Brigands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Investment Bankers - (soon to be on the Endangered Species List) Yarrr! Them too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Really now! Who, today, takes from both the large company and small person alike? Whose profit is always at another's expense? Who uses specialized tactics to their own device? Who share superficial camaraderie but turn on one another at a profit's motive? Who can never return to "normal" society? And, Who is vilified and despised by noble and pauper alike? Am I the only one who understands that today's equivalent to pyrates of old are lawyers!?!? They can inspire fear when threatened too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfoot Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I just discovered this thread and it did pose an interesting question. I may be a bit late in the game, but I figured I would put my two cents in. Okay, where is my soap box? I belong to a well known three-piece patch club and have been so for the past six-years . Do I consider these guys "modern-day" pirates. Absolutely! (Sorry Bo, had to disagree with you on this one.) I could go on attempting to explain, prove or disaprove. However, I live with these guys and I know. We have a very tight unity that is very loyal to each other. We fly our flags (colors) with pride (additionally, it is hard not to find someone displaying the Jolly Roger we sail the wind, and we like money, booze, women, sharp objects, guns, and we don't play nice if you don't play nice to us. Obviously, we don't rape, pillage, or plunder as they did in the GAOP. Our current society through time has learned from mistakes and people just are not made to act or behave in the manner they did in the GAOP with the few exceptions of serial killers and such. Motorcycle clubs are NOT gangs, nor are they common criminals. If some person came and asked "what gang are you with?" This goes back to the not playing nice part. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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