Native American Pirates

[Jib]

While reading the post on tatoos it made me think that I have never heard of a Native American who took up piracy but it seems very possible. Anyone know of any of the First Peoples who took to the sea for plunder?

[Dutchman]

i don't have the books in front of me, but i recall reading of an insance in the executive journals of virginia. as i recall, he was with a group who entered the bay and captured around keghoutan (now hampton). he was not tried as a pirate since he had no rights, but was hanged since he was a murderous savage. Almost every other entry durring the GAoP entails some sort of conflict with natives- not suprisingly, the complaint is about the colonist not honoring land patents and agreements. Anyhow, I do not think the pirates or this fellow were named in the journal- just pirates and indians- but i'll check next week when i have them in front of me.

[Fox]

In Rediker's study mentioned in the Tattoo thread he notes that six of his 'American' pirates were native Americans. Off the top of my head I can only think of Thomas Mumper by name, one of Harris' crew who originated at Martha's Vineyard

[Mission]

Local Indians were frequently used as guides by ships. I believe every privateer account I have read mentions them in this capacity. However, they usually do not seem to be technically considered as a part of the crew. Some of them must have stayed on, but their status may not have been that of a full crew member on most ships. (Many pirate ships seem to have kept servants, guides, slaves and whatnot, despite the popular notion that they were all completely egalitarian.)

[theM.A.dDogge]

a bit south....but.....John Julian...a Moskito Indian....was the navigator for the Whydah pyrate ship as she sunk off cape cod....Under the black flag Capt. "Black Sam" Bellamy

or were ya askin fer a NORTH American Indian??

[Capt. Sterling]

Gee and some dumb arse "expert" said that there were no such thing as Native Americans on pirate ships... and that I should be researching Ninjas on pirate ships instead... so much for the expert, especially since we weren't even looking to have them as part of the crewe but part of the civilians in port, which was quite a common experience according to Williamsburg, Jamestown and actual Native American tribes down in Virginia, but then, hell, what do they know??

[Jib]

a bit south....but.....John Julian...a Moskito Indian....was the navigator for the Whydah pyrate ship as she sunk off cape cod....Under the black flag Capt. "Black Sam" Bellamy

or were ya askin fer a NORTH American Indian??

Any and all Native/ Natural peoples.

[Fox]

Gee and some dumb arse "expert" said ...

A 'real' expert or a self proclaimed one?

[Quartermaster James]

a bit south....but.....John Julian...a Moskito Indian....was the navigator for the Whydah pyrate ship as she sunk off cape cod....Under the black flag Capt. "Black Sam" Bellamy

or were ya askin fer a NORTH American Indian??

Any and all Native/ Natural peoples.

As opposed to extraterrestrials?

[Jib]

a bit south....but.....John Julian...a Moskito Indian....was the navigator for the Whydah pyrate ship as she sunk off cape cod....Under the black flag Capt. "Black Sam" Bellamy

or were ya askin fer a NORTH American Indian??

Any and all Native/ Natural peoples.

As opposed to extraterrestrials?

I believe the period term for the Native Americans/ Indians was either "Native" or "Naturals". Can anyone correct me if I am wrong?

[Fox]

Far and away the most common term I've come across in period writings is "Indians"

[Mission]

Far and away the most common term I've come across in period writings is "Indians"

Ditto. I have also occasionally seen them called "savages," particularly in reference to their religion and dress customs. Political correctness was 275 years distant.

[Capt. Sterling]

Gee and some dumb arse "expert" said ...

A 'real' expert or a self proclaimed one?

One of those self proclaimed know it alls

Edited March 16, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[michaelsbagley]

Gee and some dumb arse "expert" said ...

A 'real' expert or a self proclaimed one?

One of those self proclaimed know it alls

Well come on then, this isTwill... Cite sources... web links to comments actually made? Book references if said person is an author who makes this claim? Would like to avoid faulty sources if I can, but I do need to who or what they are in order to do so.

[Fox]

Oh, and I forgot about the Indians who were taken with Jean Baptist Jedre in 1726 or thereabouts.

[Quartermaster James]

Local Indians were frequently used as guides by ships. I believe every privateer account I have read mentions them in this capacity. However, they usually do not seem to be technically considered as a part of the crew. Some of them must have stayed on, but their status may not have been that of a full crew member on most ships. (Many pirate ships seem to have kept servants, guides, slaves and whatnot, despite the popular notion that they were all completely egalitarian.)

I have to but wonder if this doesn't cut both ways? Who says Dampier's Moskito guides were interested in joining a European crew? I recall him writing of them having autonomy, especially when hunting fish - which they would not do with Europeans (ostensibly because they would upset the canoe).

[Quartermaster James]

While reading the post on tatoos it made me think that I have never heard of a Native American who took up piracy but it seems very possible. Anyone know of any of the First Peoples who took to the sea for plunder?

Do you mean with Europeans, or are you looking for accounts of bad eggs amongst the American aboriginals?

[Jib]

While reading the post on tatoos it made me think that I have never heard of a Native American who took up piracy but it seems very possible. Anyone know of any of the First Peoples who took to the sea for plunder?

Do you mean with Europeans, or are you looking for accounts of bad eggs amongst the American aboriginals?

Both. Just curious about 'Indian' pirates (not to be confused with East Indian pirates from India, that is another topic).

[Mission]

While reading the post on tatoos it made me think that I have never heard of a Native American who took up piracy but it seems very possible. Anyone know of any of the First Peoples who took to the sea for plunder?

Do you mean with Europeans, or are you looking for accounts of bad eggs amongst the American aboriginals?

Both. Just curious about 'Indian' pirates (not to be confused with East Indian pirates from India, that is another topic).

The essence of stealing at sea suggests to me anyone with a boat could have been the first person to take to piracy. It isn't a group activity at first, that happens as the successful individual pirate spreads the news to a group who is morally capable of regarding stealing as a valuable group activity. So if you were omniscient and could time travel, you could probably find many examples of some guy taking his canoe out and stealing from some other guy in a canoe. Whether that spreads through the group or not is another thing entirely. The nature of the American Indian history adds an immensely complicating factor to determining the answer to your question.

Since Indians in the Americas before the GAoP didn't write any books at all (that I know of), I think you'll have a fun time trying to research facts. As far as I know, their history was entirely oral until we came and wrote bits of it down. (Black Elk Speaks comes to mind. I believe it was written in the 1930s.) However, I would tend tend put oral tradition slightly above fiction in terms of accurateness.

No doubt you've played that game where you tell someone something and they repeat it to the next person and so on and after 4 or 5 people the message is usually so garbled you can't make heads or tails of it. Imagine how well oral history which is passed through several generations works. No doubt some people would try and argue that those transferring the knowledge would rehearse the story over and over, but then you have the nature of human memory to contend with.

The understanding of human memory based on recent research is that a person's memory is made up of a few important points that are mentally stored and recalled. All the rest of the story is filled in based on things that have happened to that person in the last day or two. Because a 'story' from your memory is in your head, you can be absolutely convinced that something happened a particular way whether it did or not. (Elizabeth Loftus has done some outstanding research on the nature of memory and false eyewitness testimony if that interests you.) No doubt you've had the experience where you were sure so and so was at X event and a photograph proved you wrong or some similar incorrect memory event.

So I don't think you can rely very much or oral traditions that have been written down generations after the original story took place as being all that factually correct. When you combine the nature of memory (where the events significant to the person recalling a memory are the only reliable bits) with the nature of the pass along story (where what is important in a story or statement depends on the interpretation of the person hearing it), you're extremely likely to have many, many incorrect facts in a story.

Why do you want to know this anyhow?

[Jib]

While reading the post on tatoos it made me think that I have never heard of a Native American who took up piracy but it seems very possible. Anyone know of any of the First Peoples who took to the sea for plunder?

Do you mean with Europeans, or are you looking for accounts of bad eggs amongst the American aboriginals?

Both. Just curious about 'Indian' pirates (not to be confused with East Indian pirates from India, that is another topic).

Why do you want to know this anyhow?

I do a little writing.

I was also curious.

[Mission]

Why do you want to know this anyhow?

I do a little writing.

I was also curious.

Ah. Well I think you can consider yourself as having almost complete artistic license. Extrapolate from what you know about human nature and you're golden.