William Brand Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Almost two years back I began to tinker with bale marks for the Mercury. This project has always been pushed to the back of my list of projects and the back of my mind, but Mary Diamond's signature contains a bale mark and every time I see it I'm reminded that I need to get one made for the Mercury. Now, a bale mark is a tag, often made in lead, that was attached to large bales of goods to be identified in shipping. Bale marks appear on goods, coins and occasionally, personal items. They often feature a number four for luck and sometimes a heart. I've chosen the M for Mercury and thrown in a few designs featuring fours, the symbol for Mercury and the obvious wings. We have months to figure out a good one for props at PIP, but we should probably get started. Examples: Now, as the Mercury crew is a pirate crew, it could reasoned out that such a mark would not exist, but it could also be argued that the Mercury would remark stolen goods to give them a feel of legitimacy. Here are a few to start...
Mary Diamond Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I am honored, sir, that you noticed my mark. To be clear, provenance of the 4 was originally a reversal of the latin signature for Christ (the P with a cross), simplifiied over time to a 4. As sailors and sailing merchants were a highly superstitious group, this mark was intended to provide protection ~ against thieves, pirates, etc. I do love the roughs you have come up with so far ~ my favorite being #3. However, you may need to determine how to explain the protection of God bit. If anyone asks. To that end ~ my signature breaks down as the following: Mary Diamond & Mark Diamond (MD), protected under god (4), across the lands and seas (crossed O), eternally (crossed O). Oooh, shiny!
silas thatcher Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 does this mean that some in the mercury crew are to be branded as well ?? what are the little "alien" looking guys ?? do they signify anything ?? going by the "coolness" factor, i'd agree with md and say #3... other than that, i have not the knowledge to make an intelligent suggestion
Mary Diamond Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 To be clear, provenance of the 4 was originally a reversal of the latin signature for Christ (the P with a cross), simplifiied over time to a 4. As sailors and sailing merchants were a highly superstitious group, this mark was intended to provide protection ~ against thieves, pirates, etc. Eegads ~ the above sounds so snooty ~ please forgive me, William, I did not mean to imply you did not already know this. I shouldn't try to quickly post before running out the door! This is the thread that started me on my original designs ~ https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=1178...mp;#entry285252 And, the Chi Ro symbol (Sign of Four) and merchant's mark is described here, much better than in my terribly abbreviated and limited statement above http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant%27s_mark Note that the Chi Ro was not just for protection against humans, but many forms of risk, including shipwrecks, etc. Which leads me to think, William, that you may have had "acquired" cargo from many merchants, which would have displayed different marks. Perhaps I should search your encampment for some of my own missing goods? I hope this helps ~ Oooh, shiny!
Silkie McDonough Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Yea ...we all know how upity Mary can be ...such a snob!
William Brand Posted February 20, 2009 Author Posted February 20, 2009 Eegads ~ the above sounds so snooty ~ please forgive me, William, I did not mean to imply you did not already know this. I shouldn't try to quickly post before running out the door! I wasn't offended in anyway. I was overly vague and you did clarify points that are important. Besides, these roughs are meant to get the discussion going and are not designed as the only possible marks for the Mercury. To answer one point, the religious implication of the four on a mark used by pirates can again be explained away as a ruse to make the bales appear legitimate. Pirates are not above a little blasphemy in commerce. Damn pirates.
Mary Diamond Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 3&6 for me. Eesh, I am on a roll tonight. Of course! 6 is my choice. Takes care of the 4 problem. Oooh, shiny!
William Brand Posted February 20, 2009 Author Posted February 20, 2009 what are the little "alien" looking guys ?? do they signify anything ?? Astronomers have traditionally used this symbol for the planet Mercury, and it is the medieval alchemical sign for the element mercury (Hg) as well. It consists of the biological sign for female (the sign used for the planet Venus), but topped with “horns” or a crescent.
Ransom Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I hesitate to post here, as I am not a member of the Mercury crewe. However, I always wondered what Mary Diamond's sig meant, as the symbol kinda fascinated me. I had never heard of bale marks. They remind me of masonry marks left on stones in the great Cathedrals. Although my vote counts for naught, of all your excellent designs, William, I must say I also prefer #3 and #6. They pretty much say it all. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog
Capt. Sterling Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 too many wings going around.... I vote for no. 5 "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
William Brand Posted February 20, 2009 Author Posted February 20, 2009 With people leaning towards 3 & 6 I thought I would narrow the field and pursue a theme.
callenish gunner Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I'd vote for the former #6 now #2 with the alchemist's symbol...... so confusing!!! not that my vote matters a bucket of bilgewater!!!!
Ransom Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Number one. The design is visually less cluttered than most of the others, and I like the idea that superstitious pyrates would want to be under the protection of God. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog
Dorian Lasseter Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 #2, 4, 7 are my choices to narrow it down... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org
Red Cat Jenny Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 The more I look at them the more I like 7. But 4 also is nice Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time...
Jack Roberts Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 7 is my choice but then again I am working for the enemy.
Mission Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 I am honored, sir, that you noticed my mark.To be clear, provenance of the 4 was originally a reversal of the latin signature for Christ (the P with a cross), simplifiied over time to a 4. As sailors and sailing merchants were a highly superstitious group, this mark was intended to provide protection ~ against thieves, pirates, etc. I do love the roughs you have come up with so far ~ my favorite being #3. However, you may need to determine how to explain the protection of God bit. If anyone asks. To that end ~ my signature breaks down as the following: Mary Diamond & Mark Diamond (MD), protected under god (4), across the lands and seas (crossed O), eternally (crossed O). That's just so cool. (And it doesn't sound arrogant to me.) My hystry-sense tends to agree with William's later statements that pirates would not have a bail mark. This should in no way stop you from making one. It gives us something else to explain during the edutainment. Something we really need is an actual, physical flag. We had to borrow one at PiP. Oh, and we could also use a cannon. We could point it at the Archangels' camp. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Mary Diamond Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Oh, and we could also use a cannon. We could point it at the Archangels' camp. What? So you have more people to practice your diabolocal surgeries on? Oh, and thank you for the compliments, all. Oooh, shiny!
Capt. Sterling Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 I have years of experience spiking guns.... point away... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Brig Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 I apologize in advance for contributing nothing worthwhile...I just had to state that I read the title of this thread as "Mercury Male Barks" every single time. Maybe by writing that down I can exorcise the transposing demon and clear my head of the images produced by this quirk. Oh, how beautiful it used to be Just you and me, far beyond the sea -Nightwish Alice Mason, Crewe of the Archangel
Mission Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Arf arf! How much is a little cannon? Where do you get one? Why am I asking this here? Can we put a bale mark on it? Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Ransom Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Think swivel gun. Smaller, easier to transport, and can be set up anywhere. Also cheaper on the coin purse. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted March 20, 2009 Posted March 20, 2009 I love these designs. Could you do something with WTF along those lines? Bo
William Brand Posted March 20, 2009 Author Posted March 20, 2009 I love these designs. Could you do something with WTF along those lines?Bo Gladly. Let's talk.
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