Sailor's paste times - Knotting

[sutlerjon]

'Ere's a new FID I just took off the turnin' device.

these'll be $14.00 + shippin'

Jim

[MadL]

I have been bored between classes 'n have take'n t' tie'n 'n wrap'n what ever I can get me hands on...no bottles as yet but all me shapies now be covered:

Note: as there be no proof that sailors in th' 17th Century partook in creative knot tying perhaps this thread should be moved t' "Beyond Piracy" or such? After all, reason would stand that rope was expensive then 'n there be no wood cuts or paintings of such folly.

[Quartermaster James]

I have been bored between classes 'n have take'n t' tie'n 'n wrap'n what ever I can get me hands on...no bottles as yet but all me shapies now be covered:

This stuff is great! You've got me inspired. What do I need and where do I go to get started? I've got the usual ball of hemp twine about. Does that work, or do I need something fancier? Hooks, needles, prickers (what the heck is a pricker anyway?)?

[MadL]

This stuff is great! You've got me inspired. What do I need and where do I go to get started? I've got the usual ball of hemp twine about. Does that work, or do I need something fancier? Hooks, needles, prickers (what the heck is a pricker anyway?)?

Well, I am not knot tying in public at any kind o' show but in th' privacy o' me own room so I have not been using any "fancy" tools as of yet; th' "pricker" as I call'd it simply be an awl from th' local 99cent Store what has a bent tip to it, sort of a lazy-S as th' bend makes it easier t' get in and grab th' small line for small knot stuff, th' awl (pricker) be of th' small variety just 6 inch long with a plastic screw driver type handle. I also have a straight one and a larger ice-pick type one with wooden handle.

For th' twine, I have now:

* 5-Ply Hemp Twine (not tarred)

* all 4 sizes of Tarred Marlene that American Rope & Tar offers

(gone through 1 each hank o' 1.6mm and 1.1 mm so had t' get more...th' larger sizes come in much larger 'balls' and last a good long time...so far)

* and some cheap jute and other cord for practice before I start with th' expensive tarred and hemp line

* also get some Bee's Wax cakes for th' Non-Tarred line, I found th' bee's wax causes th' tarred line t' become like putty so be forewarned! But ye will need it for any bare line!

For tools:

*The awls (prickers) mentioned above

*Also a good medium and large sized sailor's needle for th' stitching knots (I found some #16, #17 on Ebay, got me #10 and an Osborne Bent needle from RW Rope Warehouse)

*Some Krazy Glue (helps t' harden th' working end for threading th' medium sized lines, also I read Duco Cement be favored by knot tiers)

There be some other tools 'n gadgets I hope t' get later once I have work again, and coin coming in, but fer now this is all I have t' work with.

For References:

As I have found none that specifically mention th' 17th Century and beyond I have been using a variety o' online web site tutorials and th' afore mentioned two books which I managed t' grab before Xerox laid me off with me last formal pay: "The Arts Of The Sailor" & "The Marlinespike Sailor" by Hervey Garrett Smith

For websites I have found these great ones for tutorials with good pictures and references:

Knot Heads World Wide (Louie Batos, author o' "Making a Sailor's Traditional Ditty Bag and Sea Bag" be a member here as well!)

Frayed Knots (his tutorials are rough but much inspiration, he is also a member I noticed at Knot Heads World Wide)

There are several more I have bookmarked but these are th' main two I keep returning to.

Info on above photo:

I started with th' Stage Sword handle; I used Overhand Grafting with 1.6mm Tarred Marlene for th' 'Fillers' and 1.1mm Tarred Marlene for th' 'Warp' run. I started with just a tight wrap at th' guard for about an inch (later covered with a Turk's Head) then began th' grafting and ended about an inch (or less) from th' pommel (also covered with a smaller line Turk's Head). Ye really need th' bent awl (pricker) t' tighten them Turk's Heads, especially near th' guard!!!

Note: Make sure yer 'Fillers' be o' UnEven number! otherwise ye will have issues with th' Under-Over count and have t' compensate t' hide yer error as I did (corrected when I did me sharpie )

When I did th' Sharpie Sword (on top in th' photo) I ran into and issue trying t' tighten me Turk's Head at the pommel, due t' th' slope it kept wanting t' slide down and refused t' tighten in a pretty manor, I had Capt'n Erik look at it at LORE and he suggested a 'wider' Turk's Head (I think 5 by 7) he showed it t' me but I still can't figure it out, he had a wonderful book he suggested with great step-by-step photos but alas I can afford no more books at this time so I switched and simply wrapped it with a type o' wrap I learned years ago when restoring old fishing rods, it uses no knots.

For that wrap just start with a 'tag' of about 3/4 inch, begin wrapping very tightly laying each turn side-by-side, this will hold yer starting end with No Knot needed. Using a separate piece o' line (be sure it is of STRONG line but not something that will cut yer working line!) make a 'U' shape and begin laying it Under yer wraps so that th' bight will be exposed at th' end o' yer wrapping with th' loose ends exposed from within th' wraps - make sure th' ends are long enough as ye will need a Good Grip on them t' finish! Once ye reach th' end o' yer wrapping just thread about 3/4 inch of th' tail end through th' loop (bight) and use th' loose ends t' pull it under yer wraps, this will secure th' final end using No Knot! I do add a tiny drop o' glue just where it goes under however, just added security that it don't slip with rigorous handling (most books, as well as fishing poles, state ye would varnish th' entire work at this point - but that just would not be 'period' says I!) If ye be sure ye do all yer work TIGHT then it is very secure, even for th' handle o' a sword - th' Turk's Heads however, tighten them Slowly, take yer time, watch what yer doing, each one has taken me from two to four days t' fully tighten (about an hour or more at a time) and th' last one totally bent me pricker!)

The Bamboo Needle Case:

I started with a section o' bamboo, cut t' size leaving one end cut BELOW th' elbow so it be naturally sealed (closed), found a cork at a local hobby shop t' fit th' other end (me rum corks all are too large). I am still trying t' figure out how t' make a Star Knot as used at Frayed Knots; Capt'n Erik tells me that th' book is missing a step but th' answer be in th' written directions...still trying t' figure it out, so for this case I have gone without.

I began with a Fender Hitch also referred t' as a Rib Stitch using th' 5-Ply non-tarred Hemp twine. Took that about half way down leaving room on both ends for Turk's Heads (tie them all LAST). Then I switched t' Needle Hitching only instead o' doing it loose as ye see people do on bottles I pulled it all Tight, I read somewhere that if done tightly it creates a "near water proof finish" and it "makes nearly anything slip proof". Then I tied th' middle Turk's Head with 1.6mm tarred Marlene 'n th' two ends ones with 2.4mm tarred Marlene, I used 1.1mm t' thread down th' cork doubled with me needle and th' two outer loose ends back under me Turk's Head t' secure it after I tied simple over hand knots giving it kinda a braided appearance. I slapped some Stockholm tar on th' ends (notice th' darkness) and still debating if t' cover th' whole thing or perhaps finish covering just th' two outer Turk's Heads. (oh ya, I also got a pint o' tar from American Rope as well).

For th' two Daggers:

These where easy and only took about an hour each; I used French Hitching on each o' them with 2.4mm tarred Marlene using th' 'fishing rod' method explained above for both th' start and finishing ends.

*Note: for th' none 'fishing rod' type wraps I begin with a Constrictor Knot, on th' Bamboo Needle case me first one loosened up as I was working on th' other knots so I dabbed th' end with glue (hidden under th' Turk's Head later on, good thing I caught it)

That odd looking white spiral do-hicky is just a Turk's Head from my first practice run in cheap cotton rope then flattened out, which I found is also th' basis for Rope Mats o' which I also want t' make some of now...naught for 'wearing' o' course (less ye want th' wenches wiping their feet upon ye) but just fer home deco. Ye can make them in a variety o' shapes and sizes.

Also another project I have yet t' get to will be some Tarred Rope/Twine Grommets sized for me belt, I figure it would be a grand way t' secure some items such as me boarding axe!

I have also replaced many o' me leather and other lanyards with Tarred Marlene what I have braided with three and four strand braids and me main necklace what hangs me crocodile tooth and skull beads is now o' tarred marlene as well! (suppose I should have added them t' th' photo - forgot all about them ). I still have one however what is o' a strong cord, it secures me Fairy Cross, Shark's tooth, 'n several other charm beads all strung down th' middle; as it broke once before and I lost some I will stick with what they are now strung on as it seems nearly unbreakable!

[Quartermaster James]

My hat's off to you MadL!

Thank you most kindly for the extensive and comprehensive answer!

This should be made a sticky for future reference for all!

[j8ksdad]

Great work MadL. You've been busy.

[silas thatcher]

looks great madl !!

[oderlesseye]

just beautiful werk thar MadL ! Eye look forward

to getting my sword started and learn from ye

[Dutchman]

and my addition to the mix. tis used on my ditty bag and has a turks head a bit further down thats used as a cinch.

[silas thatcher]

making a few ditty bags now.... outta some el cheapo canvas... next i get to try my hand at the lanyards similar to dutch's

[MadL]

That looks interesting bbcddutchman! Might that be a square sennit running the up the center? But I can not make out th' large spiral knot at th' bottom, and that handle looks interesting, in th' photo ye appear t' have some lashing all way round - is that multiple line in the handle that ye sewed together as one or perhaps what looks like lashing is some kind of cover sewed over?

A ditty bag is me next major project, so I can learn t' stitch without get'n stuch, but currently all is on hold till I get coin flow'n again....

[silas thatcher]

i think hervey garret's book has an example of dutch's work

[Dutchman]

thats right silas. its been so bloody long i had to dig it out for a refresher course. of course i have to blame it on haunting lilly for dropping the bug in my ear.

MadL the loop is just a simple two stranded wrap into a four stranded walker, with an offset sennet, added two lines and made an eight strand walker (that was a fun trick!) to fit the dittybag i already had on hand.

[silas thatcher]

now post how ya did your worked eyelets... mine are okay, but not real great... how about some tips ??

[Lily Alexander]

of course i have to blame it on haunting lilly for dropping the bug in my ear.

made an eight strand walker (that was a fun trick!) to fit the dittybag i already had on hand.

Moi???

Really nice job on the eight strand walker. They are fun aren't they

[Dutchman]

and the eyelets....

this is a basic nuts and bolts. use a coin to mark your diameter, then work the center out- don't cut it. make a grommet or use a premade ring of some sort. for larger load bearing eyes use a steel ring. use small plastic for clothing. i use multiple strands through one eye, but use what you like.

using your premarked location center the grommet and begin stitching. i used two seperate needle and thread to help explain this next step, but you will only use one. make a stitch around the ring and fabric following the inside of the marked circle (red thread), then repeat going to the outside of the marked circle (black thread). you will only want to slide your stitch over three or four material threads and repeat the red stitch/ black stitch all the way around.

a note- if you are using multiple threads, keep them free of each other and spread out as you cinch them taut. i have the red running a little ahead of the black to illustrate positioning, but you will want to do every other stitch.

to finish this off, you can either leave the outer set (black thread) as it is or you can use the button hole stitch loop to join to the next one- i can't figure that one out though.

hope this helps

*note* the last picture is actually rounded, but looks longated- bad angle i guess and i folded the material under itself for contrast, there is a hole there.

Edited March 26, 2009 by bbcddutchman

[Guest]

That's the same way I sew eyelets... basicaly, it's a backwards blanket stitch.......the loopy part is on the outside.....

[silas thatcher]

here's some fancy knot work on my scabbard... bos'n carl's son , master alan, did this work for me... i think it looks fantastic !!

Edited September 16, 2010 by silas thatcher

[silas thatcher]

wow !! sorry for the big pic !!

never mind... it got sized down...

Edited September 16, 2010 by silas thatcher