Living History Ideas '09

[Mission]

I am still not a fan of the set times. I don't think it matters that much in Key West. I am proud to say that Key West broke me of the habit of wearing a watch and I wouldn't want it any other way.

If we must have set times, they should be to have a dedicated Living History display for a very short duration. Like 2 hours after battle max. (Before battle will be a huge complicating mess IMO.)

Just MHO, feel free to disagree.

[RustyNell]

I'd be willing to tour guide... I'm sure Chrispy would love it as well... we could pass the groups off from one tour guide to another to limit the time required to guide a tour, this way more people interested in guiding a tour could get in on it.

[silas thatcher]

just to add in my 2 cents worth.... i think that tours to the encampments would be a great idea.... BUT.... with fairly organized AND advertised times...

this would give the tourists a chance to look in the program, and have something to look forward to, and not miss it because the time was set at " key west " time..

in little ol' st. louis, we were able to see certain acts, due to a fairly good schedule.. here again, that requires a certain commitment of tour guides, and those doing the displays...

i believe that this would dramatically increase tourist involvement in the fort and at the encampment...

alot of people i talked to in the parking lot and the fort didn't necessarily know about the encampment, and that they were free to roam around and look..

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

If I had an ideal we would add soldiers on horseback to chase the raiders away and lead them to the edge of the path. We cold liberate those poor horses at the Navy yard, he says slyly.

-- Hurricane

Soldiers on Horses?!? But I don't have a horse... Now if you can find someone to loan me one ... I would happily change my portrayal from infantry to dragoon...

You guys are really mean! Talkin' 'bout horseplay when I have so many and cannot travel! BLOODY PYRATES!!!

I'm going to the Amish saddle shop to get my X-mas present to me from the family this week; new brass "irons" (stirrups), headstall (bridle), and girth for my plantation saddle. (But I'm payin' fer 'em!) Chocolat is a fyne young horse that will go anywhere and looks damn good too!

Bo

[Patrick Hand]

I'm not for a bunch of tours, ... one at 11;30 one at 1:00 one at 2:30... that kinda thing....

Maybe one good organized "Camp Walk" a little after the battle... and the rest of the time people could walk through the camps and see small impromptu demos of whats happening in the camps..... for some reason people were interested in watching us clean our weapons after the battle....

With one good organized "Camp Walk" we would know when to do our stuff, but we wouldn't have to spend all day setting-up and waiting for the next one... I think that would take some of the fun outta PiP, and make it almost like work....

Right (OK a little ) after the battle would be a good time.... it gives us some time to catch our breaths without having to rush... and the visitors interest will be at a high pitch...

Try to get visitors at the Fort by about 1:00... so they have time to shop (the Merchants need this)... then have some kinda warning "They Pyrates are coming" to get everyone up on the Fort walls so they can watch the Battle..... a little after the battle, would be the "Camp Tours" and when they are over the visitors would be guided back to the Fort for more shopping.... Of course the visitors would be allowed to wander out to the camps as they do now... but having everything kinda (loosely) scheduled would present a nicer experience for the visitors, and let us "show-off" (not that any of us ever do that...)

[Harry]

I like to see these sorts of things as "free form," from X time to X time as opposed to set time. The idea of opening up the encampment to tours an hour two after the battle is a good one.

I really don't want to see our program get packed with all kinds of information that will overwhelm our feeble visitors. I like to see the postcard type of thing that gets handed out around town. That card can "talk" about a specific item happening at the encampment or in the event itself as well as have other info. Teasers I call them.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Got so "upset" about the horse talk, I forgot to put my idea in the post. (heehee)

Running ball and firestarting is extremely successful in drawing crowds and holding them. I have had people stand through three or four sessions of my demos. I give the finished ball to the kids with parental permission. Last event I did was in October, I went through seven pounds of lead, and handed out over 200 rounds to happy kids, and not a few adults too! I also do a flintlock firing demo combined with a safety lesson; a paperwad blank fired at a can twelve feet away, then another with powder only at another can (or you can substitute poster board). The visual goes a long way in explaining the dangers of battle re-enactments.

Bo

Edited December 16, 2008 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

[hurricane]

I can see that. When we did the games and the sugar cane demos, we just did them whenever someone was interested enough, whether it was one or two people or a small group. We didn't want anyone to feel compelled to get edumacated -- there were some that were really into it, others weren't and that was fine. We just worked with the ones that were into it and did the demos whenever they wanted one. Otherwise we just went about our business of running the encampment and doing our living history life. Usually, the latter were the photo opp moments the tourists wanted to get - like posing in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, only with real pirates in them.

I think the twice a day - lead visitor out to the encampment so they can see living history in action -- is a good plan. Not too formal but it gives visitors the chance to see both places and get a little feel for what it was like to be living the life of a pirate... people mending ropes, a surgeon cleaning his gear, people playing games in a makeshift tavern, people at rest, others cleaning guns, the meals being cooked, an argument here and there, general discussions of the day.

-- Hurricane

I like to see these sorts of things as "free form," from X time to X time as opposed to set time. The idea of opening up the encampment to tours an hour two after the battle is a good one.

I really don't want to see our program get packed with all kinds of information that will overwhelm our feeble visitors. I like to see the postcard type of thing that gets handed out around town. That card can "talk" about a specific item happening at the encampment or in the event itself as well as have other info. Teasers I call them.

[RustyNell]

I'm not for a bunch of tours, ... one at 11;30 one at 1:00 one at 2:30... that kinda thing....

Maybe one good organized "Camp Walk" a little after the battle... and the rest of the time people could walk through the camps and see small impromptu demos of whats happening in the camps..... for some reason people were interested in watching us clean our weapons after the battle....

With one good organized "Camp Walk" we would know when to do our stuff, but we wouldn't have to spend all day setting-up and waiting for the next one... I think that would take some of the fun outta PiP, and make it almost like work....

I agree with Patrick and Sterling... I think the Battle (CANNONS!) draw people from all over town to the fort. I agree that its a good idea to move the battles to earlier in the morning, and schedule the tour for a bit after the battle so people have time to get set up for their living history, it would be perfect. As well, I think one tour a day is fine. The people that miss the tour, well, it will give them a reason to come back the following day. If we put a map of the tour of the camps in the program they are also free to take the tour - san guide at their leisure... if some of the demonstrators are still present and willing to demonstrate they get a partial tour.

With the pirate olympics and the trial, and the pub, and other entertainment (the conquistadores etc..) as well as all the battles.... to put on 3 or 4 tours could cause a scheduling nightmare. I personally believe Key West time is often a result of our reach exceeding our grasp...still you have to love the attitude oh well no biggie - keep reaching!! and well honestly we just want to enjoy it ALL. Anyway.... I fear too tight a schedule will squeeze the fun out of it for everyone. I think starting with one scheduled tour at _______ time -( about one hour after the battle) would be good. I think the tour is a GREAT idea still I think 1 is a good start.

With all the other great plans for next year I would hate to see everyone bite off so much we're all spread even thinner than we are already. I think every crew had at least someone have a mini breakdown from being spread too thin.

[Harry]

Regarding the battles being moved. The times for these have been historically set due to afternoon sails of the Wolf. There's nothing in the plan that says WE as a group plan our own land battle between Pyrates and English. Spike and I will take care of scheduling once we get as much input as possible.

[RustyNell]

Regarding the battles being moved. The times for these have been historically set due to afternoon sails of the Wolf. There's nothing in the plan that says WE as a group plan our own land battle between Pyrates and English. Spike and I will take care of scheduling once we get as much input as possible.

Harry, We could always just do a SUN salute and leave the battles where they are. I think the sound of cannons gets them to the fort though so the earlier we fire something the better. Ya think?

[Patrick Hand]

I like to see the postcard type of thing that gets handed out around town.

If we put a map of the tour of the camps

Kind of a mix of the two ideas.... we make a "treasure map" of the Fort out to the camps.... that could be passed out announcing the "Camp Walk"... after the Battle... (This also allows for Key West Time... because the "Camp Walk isn't at X:30... but a little after the battle... so we all know when it is...)

The impromptu demos we do are nice, but having an organized "Camp Walk" would let us know when to really "show-off"

The only problem I can see with this is if each Camp puts on a two hour demo..... we'll lose visitors with a short attention span, and they wont see the rest of us showing off....

I think right now, most of the visitors walking through camp don't want to disturb us and ask questions.... so we need something to let them know that talking with us if not only OK, but encouraged......

[RustyNell]

I like to see the postcard type of thing that gets handed out around town.

If we put a map of the tour of the camps

Kind of a mix of the two ideas.... we make a "treasure map" of the Fort out to the camps.... that could be passed out announcing the "Camp Walk"... after the Battle... (This also allows for Key West Time... because the "Camp Walk isn't at X:30... but a little after the battle... so we all know when it is...)

The impromptu demos we do are nice, but having an organized "Camp Walk" would let us know when to really "show-off"

The only problem I can see with this is if each Camp puts on a two hour demo..... we'll lose visitors with a short attention span, and they wont see the rest of us showing off....

I think right now, most of the visitors walking through camp don't want to disturb us and ask questions.... so we need something to let them know that talking with us if not only OK, but encouraged......

ooo ooo Patrick what a great idea... the maps are perfect...we could put info in the legend regarding where demonstrations take place between what hours people are demonstrating. Just an over view say Demonstrations take place in the careening camp between ___and ____hours, in the Buccaneer camp between ____and ____hour, this will allow us to see one another as well. People will know where to wander and when to wander - People could then take their time and if they miss a demonstration or one is too long they can feel free to move on and come back later. Then everyone knows between the hour of ____and ____ to give their demonstrations, people who want more or missed something will more likely come back the following day to see the rest. This eliminates the need for guides as well.

[Mission]

If we put a map of the tour of the camps

Kind of a mix of the two ideas.... we make a "treasure map" of the Fort out to the camps.... that could be passed out announcing the "Camp Walk"... after the Battle... (This also allows for Key West Time... because the "Camp Walk isn't at X:30... but a little after the battle... so we all know when it is...)

That does sound like a good idea.

The impromptu demos we do are nice, but having an organized "Camp Walk" would let us know when to really "show-off"

The only problem I can see with this is if each Camp puts on a two hour demo..... we'll lose visitors with a short attention span, and they wont see the rest of us showing off....

I personally figure about 5 minutes for a presentation because that's about all I usually want when I'm watching someone. I could go on for an hour about the crap I've learned, but I don't think that's being very considerate of my audience. I figure if they want more, they'll ask questions. (If you watch people, you can see when they're getting edgy.)

I think right now, most of the visitors walking through camp don't want to disturb us and ask questions.... so we need something to let them know that talking with us if not only OK, but encouraged......

Again, I suggest we use signs. Big white signs with red or black lettering. "Your questions are welcome!" or "Come see how pirates lived on land!" or "I assure you; we're open!" or some such. Key West is not Hampton (or Deltaville or where ever people are fairly close to the real world) and most people are probably not going to show up for the 2pm Living History display. It seems to me that it would be best to just flat out tell them we invite questions and this is the 1722 Mercury Camp or the 1670 Buccaneer camp or the 2009 Independent Mead Drinker's Camp and so forth. I'd be happy to help letter signs if we get the paint and wood on Tuesday. (I ain't figuring to show up before Tuesday next year unless there's a really good reason.)

[Captain Jim]

Hmmm perhaps we could have the living history tour guides actually work their way up the time line, starting with you all first...If we kept the Living History confined to a certain time, we could toss some more buccaneers your way...and then have them back as pirates for the other bits of the event...

ack...does Jim have ....boots on??

Yes and I look damn good in them, too. You will be pleased to know that they are now reserved for Halloween and Fantasy type parades. And perhaps to hang around while Sterling tries to do living history...

I like the idea of using the battle as a timing device: It allows you to get all of the crowd while they are together and move 'em where you want 'em. It also is the only time to get Mission a couple of victi...ah...patients on whom to ply his trade. Speaking of which, several pyrates, some wounded, could lead the procession back to the encampment, perhaps with one small skirmish with Pyrate Hunters along the path. Nothing large, just a pyrate running back down the path warning of pyrate hunters and a few shot exchanged (3-4 from each side) to drive off those pesky mercenaries. This buys a little time for those who were in the battle to get set up in camp. Then on to the now fully operational Death Sta...sorry, wrong movie...pyrate camp. Dump the wounded at Mission's, the dead at Sterling's and go on about your pyraty business. Aannnnd...Action!

Edited December 16, 2008 by Captain Jim

[Cpt Sophia M Eisley]

If we kept the Living History confined to a certain time, we could toss some more buccaneers your way...

Would a...trebuchet be involved in said tossing?

Mission wrote:

I personally figure about 5 minutes for a presentation because that's about all I usually want when I'm watching someone. I could go on for an hour about the crap I've learned, but I don't think that's being very considerate of my audience. I figure if they want more, they'll ask questions. (If you watch people, you can see when they're getting edgy.)

I wouldn't quite say edgy Mission...perhaps a look of "glazed eyes". That's why I tend to shorten presentations I give (either that or make 'em funny).

[Capt. Sterling]

I am still not a fan of the set times. I don't think it matters that much in Key West. I am proud to say that Key West broke me of the habit of wearing a watch and I wouldn't want it any other way.

If we must have set times, they should be to have a dedicated Living History display for a very short duration. Like 2 hours after battle max. (Before battle will be a huge complicating mess IMO.)

Just MHO, feel free to disagree.

I am and I'll tell you why... we need a set time for the public, no one wants to wait around in camp all day for them to "show up", we are bound to go over the time slot (maybe not at first) because there will always be stragglers or them that are truly interested and want to hang around and see more or ask questions... we should be presenting between X and X and then hey you're free to go to the pyrate Olympics, go sight-seeing in town, stroll the fort, or go fer a swim... or maybe, just maybe, take a nap... damn I'm gettin old...

[Cheeky Actress]

Hell Mission, one of us will serve as your idiot loblolly boy... I promise not only will we keep you lecturing, but you'll be pulling yer hair out by the time yer done... and we wonder why the surgeon is a drunk....

Geeze just get Cheeky in there...."Your going to do what to him?!!! NO!! WAIT!!!" not only that, but I guarantee her screams will be the cue for the tour guides to move to your part of the demo...

Thanks Captain (Lilly Beaming at this point). I would be happy to follow Missions direction where I can

I am sure that Bess/Cheeky/Lilly (which ever persona is needed) will help anywhere she can.

[Cheeky Actress]

And Sophia never got a chance to break out her spice trading materials at all!

Spice trade?! Wonderful. Merchant Mary Diamond could converse with her as well as Bess...(gots to have something to add to the pot whilist cooking!)

[michaelsbagley]

I post this for two reasons..

1. There may have been some good suggestions from the last time aroundthat couln't be done this past year, that may be do-able next time around.

2. To illustrate how the same discussion this year has degraded into the same debate over when and how as it did last year....

2008 Living History Display Thread

This seems to be a still very divided issue...

[Capt. Sterling]

Right then I'm thinking... have the first tour go through the camps prior to the battle and help set up the battle, part of the Living History would be to help excite the crowds, camp life, candle making, dressing game, ordinary/tavern games... then a confrontation between the opposing crewes, a brief fight/duel that leads to the opposing crewes/camps beating to quarters and running fer arms.. King's men enter the scene and the pirates flee to the battle field, to regroup and prepare for a fight, King's men following.. when the camps close down and head to the battle with the tour groups follow... some how perhaps we can "include" them in the march over to where the fighting will be, for instance, we did some marching with kids down at Deltaville, recruit them at least until they get to the battlefield and then station them with "front row seats", this would also allow us a chance to put them in the safe areas where they will still get a good view, perhaps the tour guides at this point would also double as crowd/safety control??

Then the battle, participants get back to camp, get a breather and then the next tour comes through... with the aftermath shown, surgery, undertaking, gun cleaning, etc., etc... some how ending, like Diosa said with some grand little skit...

set times for the battle and both the prologue tour and the epilogue tour, and then folks you are free to roam... with us driving or leading the tourists back to the vendors/fort... or just talking to them that are seriously interested...

[michaelsbagley]

for instance, we did some marching with kids down at Deltaville, recruit them at least until they get to the battlefield and then station them with "front row seats", this would also allow us a chance to put them in the safe areas where they will still get a good view,

And I still like this idea and plan to be developing it over the course of '09, but with the loose scheduling of PiP, I'm thinking it may be the only event I don't try this at... It worked great at Deltaville, I could see it working at Blackbeards (assuming battles are a bit more tightly scheduled this year, last year there were a few scheduling problems), and there are other events I can see this going over well at... But anywhere that is not on a strict schedule, this is setting the kids up for disapointment and frustration, which will only reflect badly on us that try to pull this off. People expect entertainers to hold up to their word even when they are not paying for said entertainment. Jaded spectators won't give a rats backside if they are being asked to wait an extra 30 minutes because we have to wait on the ship for the battle. If they are told the battle will be at "X" time, then it better be at "X" time give or take 5 or 10 minutes at the most.

[Capt. Sterling]

.. But anywhere that is not on a strict schedule, this is setting the kids up for disapointment and frustration, which will only reflect badly on us that try to pull this off.

I totally agree, and if the kids ain't happy, than neither is Mom and Dad... so we need to ask ourselves then, are we at PiP for ourselves, or to put on the best damn event for Harry and the Fort.. all I'm asking for the Living History is a tour before, then the battle and a tour after... a good way to get everyone's feet wet the first time around... then we can see how it works and if necessary let it grown the next year... just imagine, some day an almost full immersion weekend where the crowds still get to see, be entertained/educated, ... if done correctly we will also be able to make the time to also enter the Olympics or at least be able to show up to watch and support our fellow crew members that do enter the games... and remember NOT every crew member HAS to be part of the living history...

[silas thatcher]

perhaps another idea is to have people (us) as town criers, so to speak, loudly announcing an upcoming demonstration AND handing out maps with details...

this could be done right after an event such as a battle when people are already gathered... since some such as i, don't have much to display or demonstrate, we could surely be organized enough to cover the fort and field when we are given direction to do so..

this way, there is no time frame, people find out about it, and are even given a map with details about said demo.

just a thought..

[Dutchman]

the problem with doing boat battles is you are subject to the weather and all sorts of logistical problems. hampton is notorious for spectator boats in the battle zone. obviously the battle stops.

anyhow on to the living history discussion. Folks, there was plenty of living history out there- you just have to realize what you are looking at. most of the navigation discussions were on the fly when visitors were wandering through camp. the only organized thing we did were the noon sites (for obvious reasons) and the two groups that came through on tours. I'll fill ya in on a little secret about living history. If ya stay in character and do it- they will come. when you drop out of character, you loose your potential audience. This is why its so very important for each person involved in living history to have a skill or trade. you don't have to be good at it- just don't break character.

lets start at the fort side of the camp and take a tour. we entered and had gunner with a weapons display- obviously he talks about guns. next along the walk is sir willie of the wobble shire with his fancy knotwork- marlin spike is the theme here. while he may not have meant to do it, he had a crowd a few times watching him work on his bottles. the bonies were along the beach- kind of hard to see what was going on in their camp from the path- but you could tell there was alot there from the sea. weapons, tools, daily life and a jolly good time! back to the other side were the guys wearing bent car hoods with sticks on fire. they were a wealth of good information about the local history and the attitude of florida at the time. next along our path was the ordinary- what fun-nough said about that. then along to surgery, navigation, and mourning. silas' kids and the snotties were at play- doing what kids did then as well as now- having fun (by the way- gotta do something about those plasic and aluminum containers). all throughout the camp there were visitors taking pictures all day long, just strike up a conversation and introduce them to the Golden Age. Ahoy mate- i see youre interested in the camp fire. well welcome to sealkies hide- let me introduce you to the proprietress. They may not be interested in Navigation or Surgery or what ever you are versed in, but try to find out what interests them and find a pirate who can provide them with information if you cant.

here is a humble observation and suggestion. due to the distance between the fort the battle field and camp a guide of some sort is needed. but a guide through the camp can become a canned lecture. if you look at the picture of my navigation tour, yes there are people, but one is kicking coral, the kids are fidgiting, and one is yawning. how long had they been in the camp? were they really interested? had i bored them to death? who knows. let them wander through the camp and engage what ever they find interesting- a self guided path, if you will- the important thing from our end is to know who else is doing what, find the visitors interest and get them there!