garb- full on reenactor? Or Hollywood type?

[Littleneckhalfshell]

Faire need more PC Vendors! (pc as in 'Piraticaly Correct')

Faire ain't no place to shop.

Eat, drink and get laid, yes. Shop, no.

Here's a small list of vendors providing off the shelf and some tailored 18th century goods.

Caveat emptor! Do your research before you buy! Know if that gear is right for your impression!

(list of Vendors)

This is where I get confused, most of those vendors listed, speak of their wares being proper 18th Cent. and some particularly to the latter half of the 18th Cent. This puts them OUT of the GAOP period. With some information making the point that what is appropriate for the Fur Trade era is not for the Rev.War. So what exactly can I get that will work for GAOP?! I don't car for the petticoat slops, and would like a pair of knee britches, So is the french fly the one that will keep me in the proper period? I have yet to see a listed vendor speak of their ware being proper for GAOP or even 17th Cent. which is where we want to be, no? middle to late 17th Cent and just a couple of decades into the 18th. 1650-1720 no? Maybe that is why some people go Hollywood, with Hollywood, anything goes, and if you are trying to be at least close to period correct, there is so little to guide you to get it right and even then, you might get it wrong.

I know I am stuck in irons as far as which way to tack, not Hollywood, but where to go for 1700 proper. Help!

[michaelsbagley]

This is where I get confused, most of those vendors listed, speak of their wares being proper 18th Cent. and some particularly to the latter half of the 18th Cent. This puts them OUT of the GAOP period. With some information making the point that what is appropriate for the Fur Trade era is not for the Rev.War. So what exactly can I get that will work for GAOP?! I don't car for the petticoat slops, and would like a pair of knee britches, So is the french fly the one that will keep me in the proper period? I have yet to see a listed vendor speak of their ware being proper for GAOP or even 17th Cent. which is where we want to be, no? middle to late 17th Cent and just a couple of decades into the 18th. 1650-1720 no? Maybe that is why some people go Hollywood, with Hollywood, anything goes, and if you are trying to be at least close to period correct, there is so little to guide you to get it right and even then, you might get it wrong.

I know I am stuck in irons as far as which way to tack, not Hollywood, but where to go for 1700 proper. Help!

Hey there LittleNeckHalfShell, there are few to no vendors that deal in GAoP items... The above list of vendors while they do specialize in F&IW and Rev-War stuff or later as you said, have many items that while based on later period stuff, many of the items is stylistically close or similar enough for re-enacting purposes. That said, some of these vendors (and others) are starting to carry the odd item that is correct for our period, but it is slow going. The items that are GAoP will be labeled on said vendor or dated appropriately. While it may slow things down, Twill or the Thieve's Market are both great for getting advice and/or constructive criticism on an item you might be interested. There are plenty of people here that are knowldegable and all too ready to let you know if an item you are interested in is close, similar, the same, or way off of what was used in the GAoP.

[Hawkyns]

French fly is most definitely the type you would want. Knee breeches are fine, but you want them baggier than the F&I or Rev War styles. What you might want to look at are Sykes Sutlering, The Practical Goose, or Big Bear Trading. They all deal in earlier kit, Sykes and the Goose in particular in English Civil War kit. and that's probably more where you should base your research. English Civil War, Restoration, or Marlborough's Wars are the period covered by 1650-1720. GAoP is still in its infancy when it comes to real research sites, and especially sutlers. Most of the best sites are run by people on this board. Look in Twill, there's a lot of info. Ask questions of those who look like they know what they are doing.

Hawkyns

[William Brand]

Thanks for yet another good place to look for goods, Hawkyns.

http://www.thepracticalgoose.com/

http://sykesutler.home.att.net/

[Littleneckhalfshell]

Thanks for yet another good place to look for goods, Hawkyns.

http://www.thepracticalgoose.com/

http://sykesutler.home.att.net/

Sykes is still listing their virtual 2007 catalog, their travel is a little more up to date, but still behind the times as their only listing for where they will be attending is "School of the Musketeer at Fort Mifflin on the Deleware, Philadelphia, Pa on April 19 - 20 2008" That is almost a year old! Anyone actually dealt with them recently?

The practical goose site is "under construction" and only has a half working link for some knitted hats. :-(

Seems like I keep running into sandbars trying to navigate this britches question.

[Littleneckhalfshell]

French fly is most definitely the type you would want. Knee breeches are fine, but you want them baggier than the F&I or Rev War styles. What you might want to look at are Sykes Sutlering, The Practical Goose, or Big Bear Trading.

Hawkyns

Ok, looked at sykes and practical goose, but Big Bear Trading poses a problem. Which Big Bear Trading are we talking about?

I googled and got that name listed in MI, RI, NM.... etc. Most sites are out of date 2005 or 2007 and I am not finding any ready made clothing on any of them. Mostly just 'stuff' period combs, personal items, etc. Now I know why Patrick Hand sews all his stuff, not because it is cheaper, but because dealing with these online things can drive a man madder than being marooned!

[callenish gunner]

I have found a sutler under the trade name Black Bear Historical Clothing http://blackbearhistoricalclothing.com/ Not sure if these are the folks that Hawkyns referred to; however I have dealt with them and they do pretty good work. They are in Auburn, West Virginia

Black Bear Historical Clothing

Hope that is some help to you

[Quartermaster James]

I have found a sutler under the trade name Black Bear Historical Clothing http://blackbearhistoricalclothing.com/ Not sure if these are the folks that Hawkyns referred to; however I have dealt with them and they do pretty good work. They are in Auburn, West Virginia

Black Bear Historical Clothing

Hope that is some help to you

I have done much trade with Rick & Linda of Black Bear Historical Clothing.

They are quite reasonably priced and willing to make anything you want.

They also have an eBay presence for prêt-à-porter pieces.

Many of the other tailors I listed can also be approached for GAoP stylings. Remember, their catalog will showcase what is popular and makes money for them. GAoP is, as has been mentioned, still a young variant of the reenacting hobby.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Quartermaster James

[LadyBarbossa]

Each to their own.

Some can sew, some cannot. And yes, merchants sell what people buy, mostly to the general public and so few to th' more historically correct. Being correct takes a bit of an investment (time, money, etc)

This is where I get confused, most of those vendors listed, speak of their wares being proper 18th Cent. and some particularly to the latter half of the 18th Cent. This puts them OUT of the GAOP period. With some information making the point that what is appropriate for the Fur Trade era is not for the Rev.War. So what exactly can I get that will work for GAOP?!

:::points to signature:::

Though new to business, tis m' goal not t' make "cookie cutter" attire but attire that fits YOUR persona. (yes, shameless plug there)

Those who can sew, what Patrick Hand stated is very good advice, too. Keep yo'r eyes open, you can find said fabrics at discount prices or even on the remenant table. Trust me, there are PLENTY of period fabrics out there. And if ye know where to look, you can get them for a fantastic price.

It's always up to th' person if they want to look the way they want in pop culture costumey look or if they want to be more realistic and historical.

~Lady B

[bosun red]

Each to their own.

Some can sew, some cannot. And yes, merchants sell what people buy, mostly to the general public and so few to th' more historically correct. Being correct takes a bit of an investment (time, money, etc)

This is where I get confused, most of those vendors listed, speak of their wares being proper 18th Cent. and some particularly to the latter half of the 18th Cent. This puts them OUT of the GAOP period. With some information making the point that what is appropriate for the Fur Trade era is not for the Rev.War. So what exactly can I get that will work for GAOP?!

:::points to signature:::

Though new to business, tis m' goal not t' make "cookie cutter" attire but attire that fits YOUR persona. (yes, shameless plug there)

Those who can sew, what Patrick Hand stated is very good advice, too. Keep yo'r eyes open, you can find said fabrics at discount prices or even on the remenant table. Trust me, there are PLENTY of period fabrics out there. And if ye know where to look, you can get them for a fantastic price.

It's always up to th' person if they want to look the way they want in pop culture costumey look or if they want to be more realistic and historical.

~Lady B

thank ye all, I didn't mean to open a jar of worms but interesting never the less. I do sew most of our costumes. I even enjoy sewing. Something about taking a pattern and sewing it so no one can see the mistakes just makes me happy.

Now I am in the middle of two cloaks and a pirate coat. Oklahoma weather can be a bugger. Last year we went to the ren. fair at Normand,OK for the first time. Even though the days were near 65 the early mornings had more than a bit of chill to the air. Now with the first weekend in April coming fast i spend all me extra time sewing.

I comend you men on sewing in such cramped spaces. Hell, I comend you for sewing at all. Ican just imagine the blundering mess my captain would create if i allowed him loose in my sewing room. I am quite confident he would sew some part of himself to his own self.

P.S. I will have a look-see at those web sites you posted, fore sure.

[MadL]

I am quite confident he would sew some part of himself to his own self.

Been There Done That, Got The Hole In Me Thigh T' Prove It!

noth'n like spending an hour t' carefully sew a straight line, then tie off th' end, feel'n proud ye lift th' piece up t' see and....oops Why Th' Bloody 'Ell Is It Stuck T' Me Pant Leg?!!? I swear, it twas in step #5, it twas, honestly!!!

...oh, and I might mention; that was just sewing a simple market wallet - can ye imagine what a whole garment may do t' me health????

Edited March 3, 2009 by MadL

[Capt. Sterling]

I am quite confident he would sew some part of himself to his own self.

Been There Done That, Got The Hole In Me Thigh T' Prove It!

noth'n like spending an hour t' carefully sew a straight line, then tie off th' end, feel'n proud ye lift th' piece up t' see and....oops Why Th' Bloody 'Ell Is It Stuck T' Me Pant Leg?!!? I swear, it twas in step #5, it twas, honestly!!!

Ah! we were doing a hanging at Lockhouse, I was supposed to have been shot in the leg thus resulting in my capture. Immediately dragged to the tree and rope and given a stool to sit on because I was wounded as they are going through this really quick "trial" well the surgeon comes over to check the wound and starts sewing it shut... all fine even though they were going to hang me any way... well the poor guy starts sewing my breeches to my leg... with a number of very large stitches.. oh shite... it hurt..... but was pretty funny at the time... certainly was one of those under yer breath moments of "what the bloody hell are ye doing???"

[MadL]

A recent National Geo on TATTOOS had one ancient technique where they use a needle and string, th' needle was coated in some sort o' black dye then th' needle was literally threaded through th' skin, as th' string was drawn through it would drop it's dye directly int' th' skin leaving a small dot. This was done several times t' make dots that in th' end formed a pattern.

Hey Capt'n Sterling, perhaps yer surgeon was just giving ye a native tattoo

[Guest]

.

.oh, and I might mention; that was just sewing a simple market wallet - can ye imagine what a whole garment may do t' me health????

Yeah... but ya gots ter start somewhere..... (besides...th' blood makes it more authentic..... )

I still say, learn how to sew, so you can make it yourself.... Hey... even if you mess up, you've learned something.... there is a learning curve to sewing.... but the more holes ye poke in yer fingers, sooner or later your learn...1. how to make stuff better.... 2. to stop poking holes in yer fingers (well attempt not to....It still happens....)

I'd also like to point out that I'm from th' Make it outta cotton first camp.... so ye knows what yer doing when ye use/buy th' good stuff...

Sure you have to do it twice.... but it almost always come out better with a bit of practice.... But you also have something to wear as you are making (or saving up the money for ) your good stuff.... If you have someone helping you, you can skip that step... but for most of us, it's a heckofalot cheaper making mistakes with cotton than with linen/hemp/wool, or your good fabric....

[Mr.Tignor]

.

.oh, and I might mention; that was just sewing a simple market wallet - can ye imagine what a whole garment may do t' me health????

Yeah... but ya gots ter start somewhere..... (besides...th' blood makes it more authentic..... )

I still say, learn how to sew, so you can make it yourself.... Hey... even if you mess up, you've learned something.... there is a learning curve to sewing.... but the more holes ye poke in yer fingers, sooner or later your learn...1. how to make stuff better.... 2. to stop poking holes in yer fingers (well attempt not to....It still happens....)

I'd also like to point out that I'm from th' Make it outta cotton first camp.... so ye knows what yer doing when ye use/buy th' good stuff...

Sure you have to do it twice.... but it almost always come out better with a bit of practice.... But you also have something to wear as you are making (or saving up the money for ) your good stuff.... If you have someone helping you, you can skip that step... but for most of us, it's a heckofalot cheaper making mistakes with cotton than with linen/hemp/wool, or your good fabric....

In my opinion thats VERY sound advice. Also surprisingly accurate to how it went for me too...........now that the sewing looks better(and happens alot faster) its alot cheaper to make things the yea olde fashioned way! But pleeasssseeee take Mr. Hands warning, try it all out of cheap fabric first! I have about $75 worth of linen waistcoat and breeches that are all but useless to me *tear

[Quartermaster James]

I have about $75 worth of linen waistcoat and breeches that are all but useless to me *tear

Only $75? I'd say you got off on the cheap there!

[Gunpowder Gertie]

This is where I get confused, most of those vendors listed, speak of their wares being proper 18th Cent. and some particularly to the latter half of the 18th Cent. This puts them OUT of the GAOP period.

I'd jus like ta point out that the middle of the 18th century is GAOP.

we be in the 21st century now, but we say 2009, savvy?

Ergo..the 18th century deals with items from 1700-1799.

the 19th century is out of the GAOP- from 1800- 1899.

[silas thatcher]

after a couple o' bouts with the missus, she finally told me to sew it myself !!! patrick is correct... start with the cheap stuff... i have been using some cheap canvas i picked up for my experimenting and if it turns out well, it IS pc to boot !!

as far as blood goes, got in a hurry one night and drove a large needle through my finger ( yes-- through-- in one side, out the other ) while sewing some canvas... after i pulled the needle out, i decided to "mark" my project ( a hammock ) until the bleeding stopped :)

ps--- don't try that... it hurt for a couple o' days !!

getting the hang of it all and learning what to do to make it actually fit... right now i am making some new garb for me and 3 of our kids before the santa maria event in columbus, ohio may 9 weekend... 4 sailor's jackets, a few early style breeches, a few more shirts with some improvements, some ditty bags for personal stuff, and hopefully a new justacorps if i have time..

by the time i am done with these, i should be able to move on to different fabrics and may even try hand sewing them all...

[Quartermaster James]

This is where I get confused, most of those vendors listed, speak of their wares being proper 18th Cent. and some particularly to the latter half of the 18th Cent. This puts them OUT of the GAOP period.

I'd jus like ta point out that the middle of the 18th century is GAOP.

we be in the 21st century now, but we say 2009, savvy?

Ergo..the 18th century deals with items from 1700-1799.

the 19th century is out of the GAOP- from 1800- 1899.

With all due respect Gertie, and understanding that such things are subjective, the Golden Age of Pyracy is not simply the 18th century but a smaller period between the late 17th century and early 18th century.

[Guest]

We can quibble about this.... but the Periods... (Kinda sorta)

Elizabeathean Sea Dogs.... Early 1600

The Buccaneers 1650 to about 1699

The Golden Age of Pyracy is basically 1700 to about 1720(ish) (maybe up th 1730's.... but those were that last of the scallywags...)

Yeah... there are variations... and we can argue this forever..... but as a basic rule of thumb.... that's kinda-sorta close enoughish....

Hey Silas... don't just start with the cheap ((inexpensive) stuff... but if yer working on it fer the three kids... start with the middle one... if it comes out too small... pass it down.. too large pass it up... eventually you'll figure it all out and then can make stuff to size.....

Ye don't just larn this stuff from the internet.... you gotta play with it... mess with it, and figure it all out....

But once ye gots it figgured out... dang... ye can make just about anything........

OH yeah.... after poking yer finger th' first time.....ye kinda figured out not to do that too much any more.....

See.... that be wot we call experience.......

[Cascabel]

We can quibble about this.... but the Periods... (Kinda sorta)

Elizabeathean Sea Dogs.... Early 1600

The Buccaneers 1650 to about 1699

The Golden Age of Pyracy is basically 1700 to about 1720(ish) (maybe up th 1730's.... but those were that last of the scallywags...)

Yeah... there are variations... and we can argue this forever..... but as a basic rule of thumb.... that's kinda-sorta close enoughish....

Hey Silas... don't just start with the cheap ((inexpensive) stuff... but if yer working on it fer the three kids... start with the middle one... if it comes out too small... pass it down.. too large pass it up... eventually you'll figure it all out and then can make stuff to size.....

Ye don't just larn this stuff from the internet.... you gotta play with it... mess with it, and figure it all out....

But once ye gots it figgured out... dang... ye can make just about anything........

OH yeah.... after poking yer finger th' first time.....ye kinda figured out not to do that too much any more.....

See.... that be wot we call experience.......

I have always wondered just exactly WHO made the decision on when the GAOP was, and by what authority did they make that decision ??? Seems kinda odd to me that there are sometimes EXACT cut-off dates that people abide by. And when somebody actually asks, it is always a rather a vague answer. (well, sorta kinda, thereabouts..... etc.)

Foxe ?..... Blackjohn ?.... Any genuine or self-appointed historians care to enlighten us ? ...... Anybody ??

>>>> Cascabel

[silas thatcher]

Hey Silas... don't just start with the cheap ((inexpensive) stuff... but if yer working on it fer the three kids... start with the middle one... if it comes out too small... pass it down.. too large pass it up... eventually you'll figure it all out and then can make stuff to size.....

the canvas i'm using looks fairly decent, so i'm going to stick with that for starting a project... even dyed the jackets i'm making...

i did start in the middle... :) probably mine and the 16 y.o.'s will have to be "tailored" a bit... i'll give it a try to see if i can make the fit a little better...

after i'm done with these, i'll have all the kinks and bugs worked out and move on to better fabric... canvas for jackets and breeches will have to do for now :)

Edited March 29, 2009 by silas thatcher

[angelgal918]

The GAoP is the period between the end of Queen Anne's War (I'm fairly certain, it was one'o'them Dutch wars) and basically the Take-Down of Blackbeard when Spotswood decided to make himself King of the Pirate Killers (and spent about a year convincing the Real King that the Take-Down of Blackbeard by Virginians was totally legal-he actually had no real jurisdiction in Ocracoke or anywhere thereabouts.)

I'm sure you're all aware, but just to re-iterate, the Golden Age of Piracy started with all of England's Caribbean Privateers who were given letters of marque against the Dutch, French, Spanish, etc. because of all the wars over colonies there were dropped when all the wars ended.

Sort of like if WWII ended and nothing was done for the returning GI's. You get a lot of pissed-off professionals.