Fencing

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

My university has a fencing club, and I have not yet contacted them. I know only that there are two basic types, classical and tournament. I know dang near everything about FARM fencing, but nothing of weilding the steel. What should I look for and is this something that could help me when it comes time for stage combat?

Hope ya'll don't mind me buggin ya here on yer crew forum, but i know you guys are serious when it comes to battle so I trust and value your advice on this matter. thanx...

Bo

[Rats]

Ive actually been thinking about taking some classes my self!!

I'd go classical!!! I think

[michaelsbagley]

Hey Bo,

I studied sports/classical fencing for quite a few years... There are three sorts of sports/classical fencing.

1. Foil - poking attacks only, target areas are torso only. Head, arms and legs are off target.

2. Epee - poking attacks only, whole body is valid target (from tip of toes to top of head).

3. Sabre - Slashing attacks, anything above waist is valid target.

Odds are your university will have one or more of the above styles available.

Then you get into a lot of gray areas. Various fencing styles that can generally be lumped into modern attempts to replicate rapier fencing. The SCA has a pretty good system for this. There are lots of other variants, most I have seen are somewhat similar, but there is a wide range of styles and rulesets for "rapier" and there are no "official" or "sport" standards. These styles tend to be better for re-enactment and stage combat. I usually advise the SCA for fencing, as the SCA is the closest thing to a national standard... But then you are in Missouri... And for some strange reason, the SCA groups in Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Northern Arkansas are the ONLY SCA groups that don't do the rapier combat... Which really sucks.

Hope this has helped, feel free to ask more. I'm sure M.A. d'Dogge will pipe up as well, from talking to him on the trip to and from North Carolina, he seems to know as much as I do, if not more....

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Thankee! this gives me at least a starting point. When I know more about what to ask, i will do so.

Bo

[Capt. Sterling]

I have been fencing on and off since college... back in the stone age...at the moment it is being a bit of a problem with stage combat which is another animal all together... as I still want to invade the "safe area" and go in for the kill. But the fencing has taught me how to "pull my punches" ....still there is a lot of unlearning to do in order to be safe and get the stage combat correct. Hopefully Maddogge will chime in here, but for what its worth, the combat director at Williamsburg said twas better to learn the stage combat first and then add classical moves to it.

[theM.A.dDogge]

Fencing and Stage Combat are two different animals.....and dont git along very well

so kinda depends what ya plan on doin with it???

if ya always had a yeaning to learn the fine art and sport of fencing...without a hammer...then by all means take the classes....they will give you a understanding of the proper feet work, stances and manuveres used in sword play......

but ....but.....if ya plan on ussin this knowledge to engage someone on the re-enactment battlefield...in front of the audience...then i would caution against it...and re-commend a stage-cobat class instead....which if its worth its salt...will also teach ya the baisic feet work, stances and manueveres of sword play....

the difference you ask???(didn't ask?? tough i'm goin tell ya anyway)

stage is for the stage....all moves are more open....telegraphed...obvious...and safer(means no hitting each other ......much).....Fencing.....moves are hidden from your opponent....goal to hit....while stage goal is to pretend to hit(big difference).

i have found those that learned to stage fight first...then go into fencing found it an easier time...then to fence then learn to pull back and learn stage combat?!?!?

so again....depends on your intensions....and your character you wish to portray

for example....captain ,Lt, or merchant man....may have learned fencing as part of his tutelage.....while an able boddied seaman...would not have the same learnin...and most likely more of a brawler....hence more toward the stage then fencing.....

ultimately....it would be nice to learn both.....as long as you can seperate the two..to be able to do both....but several people end up not being able to either for the two discplins git in the way of each other.

but as far as historical....both fencing and stage combat...is based on actual moves, attacks and defenses used durring our time periods.....only difference being whats used for safety????fencing padded jacket,mask gloves etc......while stage uses choreographed moves, ques, and a saftey "barrier" or area that the sword dosent cross etcetcetc.....

soooooo.....what ya plannin on doin???

[michaelsbagley]

Good summary M.A. d'Dogge...

Considering your options Bo, take the classical/sports fencing at the university (because I am guessing stage fighting won't be an option, but if it is choose that!). If they have choices as to which of the three styles mentioned in my last post, choose "foil". I found that foil fencing focusses on tip and blade control the most out of the three sport styles, while foil does also teach sneaky attacks, the stress on point control adds a lot of safety that offsets the sneakiness in my opinion. Out of the three sport styles, sabre (which is probably the most historically appropriate for pirates) happens to be the "wildest" of the sport styles and would most likely lend itself to habits that are not particularly good for re-enactment or stage fighting.

[Capt. Sterling]

We should work up some period correct fencing gear, nothing looks worse than using the modern stuff at events unless its after hours of course... then we could do a Fencing Master scenario... Maddogge out there screaming at his two students....

[callenish gunner]

most stage combat styles are based on sabre techniques since they are more swings rather than quick point work and since foils are so flexible they don't allow much in the way of parrying or blocks while sabre has a more substantial blade what you would learn in that form of fencing can be more readily transfered to the stage ...classically trained actors all use sabre training to gain a basis for their stage combat techniques ...the royal academy and most acting schools only teach sabre techniques because it also looks better from a distance than the fine point work of foil or epee the schlager blades that most stage work is done with would not work well with the foil type moves or the use of a cutlass for field use at a reenactment event would almost be impossible to perform with the foil techniques ....depending on the university if they have a good theatre department they might have a stage combat class that would make a good elective and in some cases can also be applied to phys. ed. requirements as well!!!

good luck!!!

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Great info folks, and well taken. I understand about un-learning all too well, and for that reason and the fact that their meeting times don't work for me, I will just wait til i have time to learn stage from the start. I knew you all would steer me straight, and thanks again!!!

Bo