Stirring up the pot...

[Dorian Lasseter]

The Energy NON-Crisis

This video is quite long, EVERY AMERICAN has to see this. The entire video

is about an hour long but if you will watch 10 minutes of this video you will get the just of what is being said. All Americans need to see this send this to everyone you know including governors senators local politicians

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...598272&q=&hl=en

Haven't found anything yet to disprove it...

[Silkie McDonough]

Wow. Does this mean we are a bunch of sheep?

[hurricane]

Wow. Does this mean we are a bunch of sheep?

And this is a surprise?

-- Hurricane

[Silkie McDonough]

Too many sheep not wnough people thinking on their own.

Hmmm... I work for a bank ...collapsed American dollar means no banks ...I suppose I should be looking for another job.

[Dutchman]

well, we can't do much individually against corperate monsters, but collectively......every little bit helps.

in the mean time, buy it cheap and stack it deep. i know i can feed my powder hungry friends and have spare parts for a while. now i'll take my parinoia, put on my aluminum foil hat and sit on the roof for a while.

[Capt. Sterling]

A duh...

[oderlesseye]

$65.00 for 12 gallon of gasoline! One Half hour ago...

No movie theater for me I feel powerless over this whole thing..

I will repost the video on Myspace though..

[MadL]

Wow. Does this mean we are a bunch of sheep?

*bends o'er*

Bahhh, Bahhhh!

[Lady Alyx]

Thank you so much for this link to this video. I did listen to the entire thing. I have long suspected there are people who are running the show, but could not quite but the finger on it...I knew oil and big money was behind it....but the middle man factor was the information that was lacking to me for so long. WOW....surprised this is not on YOUTUBE!!!!!!! AND HUFFPO!!!!!!

[Lady Alyx]

YES baaaaah the American people have been sheep for a very long time..especially since the election was stolen from Gore and given to Bush.....

Interesting how Bush and McCain are talking about the reserves...is it more bullshit?

Back in the 80's when Hughes Aircraft was still around I worked at the Electro Optical Div...and we were on a joint project for the Electric Car...and there was a mandate on the books to have so many electric cars on the road by that time...and oil...I have heard recently is what killed it....if we could have went forward with the Battery cars and tech as it is always improving we would have been driving electric cars...look at the solar cars....we are killing ourselves here in America and we are helping it. If they do not stop...Americans will become 3rd world...but that will just ensue a Revolution...not a nice brave new world your kids and grand kids are inheriting.

[Lady Alyx]

I have since listening to that video been doing some fact finding...and the facts are adding up...check this out

Z-Facts

[Dorian Lasseter]

Revolution anyone?

[Misson]

"Senator Chance," Mr. X replied, "we don't dare tell the American people the truth because there are so many laws already passed and regulations on the books that if the government decided to impose them all on us and enforce them, they could put us into bankruptcy within six months."

What I find interesting (and what much of this boils down to) is how much freedom we'll give up to live in "safety". The power gradually being ceded to the judicial branch - which he is talking about in the above quote- is a bid for safety. The war was a bid for safety. Universal health care is a cry for safety (well, for protection). Gun control is a bid for safety. (They obviously were deluded when they wrote the 2nd Amendment.) Environmentalism is a bid for safety. (Global warming is an interesting long-term safety scheme - if we don't protect the world from the theoretically harmful carbon emissions, our children and grandchildren may suffer. Usually people aren't quite that far-thinking, so I have to give them credit for selling us that particular bill of goods.) I wonder what the history books will say about this era and our willingness to give up our freedom (the true engine of US economic success) for the unobtainable holy grail of safety?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin

[hurricane]

Want to know what happened to the electric car? This movie is amazing!

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

-- Hurricane

[Misson]

What does the electric car solve? Electricity has to come from somewhere. It's the same sort of short-sighted solution that Ethanol is - and the resulting long-range problems from adopting such would most likely at least equal the problems of the gasoline engine. (It sounds like a bait and switch tactic to me. I think the same is true of the CFLs as well. Soon after their adoption in 2012, I'll bet we'll start hearing stories about the hazardous waste (Mercury) being created by CFLs and we'll have to switch to something else. Maybe to candles. Oop, no, they give off carbon emissions. We'll have to live in the dark. Ah, such progress in the name of safety.)

[hurricane]

Electricity can come from many sources: wind, solar, hydroelectric, wave power... it certainly makes more sense than relying on a resource that is limited in the end, no matter how much we dedicate to finding the very last drop. Oil is and has always been a limited resource that will run out.

After living through 11 presidents now, nothing seems to change no matter what the issue. As soon as one devotes vast sums of money for a green cause, the next one pulls it all away. Any progress we ever see is dismantled as soon as the next administration from an opposing part gets in. Nothing really gets done because of this see-saw between special interests and the people they put into office.

And we will never start a revolution here. If it didn't happen in the 60's, it isn't going to happen now (besides, the hippies are now running all the corporations - the sellouts!). We are lazy and comfortable in our little world. Funny how our ancestors made due without oil or even electricity. The end of result won't be revolution, it will be war with other countries over the last remaining oil in the world. That is how we solve things here - beat others up for what they have and what we want. Like little kids in a sandbox.

-- Hurricane

[Misson]

Electricity can come from many sources: wind, solar, hydroelectric, wave power... it certainly makes more sense than relying on a resource that is limited in the end, no matter how much we dedicate to finding the very last drop. Oil is and has always been a limited resource that will run out.

It's still a stop-gap solution. The best option of the lot you name seems to me to be solar - and that still isn't worth the investment without subsidy and it's currently not entirely reliable. (Plus it produces disposable waste in the form of batteries.)

I think the real solution will come from an as-yet undiscovered or poorly popularized option. It's happened many times in the past. And the powerful controlling Industry (whichever folks choose to portray as a source of consipiracies against the general populace) is usually all but powerless to stop it when it occurs. No one can stop an idea whose time has come. Innovation is a by-product of freedom.

[Dorian Lasseter]

So, in saying that it's just a stop-gap solution, is it not worth pursuing? should we just give up on these stop-gap solutions and just knuckle under until someone, somehow finds the 'golden answer'?

Everything has some sort of waste by-product, be it carbon emissions, batteries depleted uranium rods, etc. Energy will need to be stored somehow, in some kind of container, etc.

What's the 'lesser evil'?

[hurricane]

But if we rely on solar energy what will the people of Seattle do? :)

-- Hurricane

[Misson]

I think (as I hinted earlier) that as soon as we adopt the new stop-gap 'solution' several things are likely.

1. We will soon begin hearing about how damaging the new solution is to the environment and thus will have solved little as far as the environmentalist concern goes.

2. The market will naturally respond to an increase in demand by an increase in prices. It's still simple supply and demand.

3. Other unforseen (or ignored) long-term consequences will arise. Off the top of my head,

a) Your home energy costs will go up as a result of converting a large number of vehicles to electric power, so that should be deducted from your predicted savings. Most comparisons assume current prices and this is not valid. See point 2.

b.) Further strain on the already strained energy grid - which may cause outages and thus limit your transport. When they go to upgrade the energy grid to solve this, it also increase the cost of electricity because of the expense. See point a.

c) The increase in pollutants from energy companies . This is related to supply/demand but is a separate issue in a way. Nuclear is one proposed solution to this, but it will take years to build the plants. The most efficient solar option (last I read), was 3x or 4x more expensive than coal, so that is not a very good solution at present. (Although they are ever trying to improve it's efficiency. One company is up to 22 or 23 percent. But, naturally, their equipment is more expensive to buy than the others whose efficiency is in the teens) And so forth. Right now, it's coal for the short-term and coal produces a lot of pollution. See point 1.

And so forth. A lot of these would be solved in the long-term, but in the short-term, I think the savings would accrue to the very early adopters. Everyone else would probably wonder why they did it. It's an inelegant and messy solution.

On the other had, take a left-field solution like the introduction of the fuel-injection system in the 80s. I've heard estimated that it just about doubled the fuel efficiency of the car over the carburetor. If we take that as a working premise, you effectively doubled the supply of fuel if you think of it in terms of how much fuel is required to power how many cars all other things being constant. This essentially increased supply in economic terms, which helped end the gas crises of the late 70s. It was transparent to most users and didn't require huge up-front costs. It was an elegant solution. That's what I see happening eventually. Something like that that we're not even thinking about that completely changes the rules of the game.

[callenish gunner]

here's to we the sheeple

[callenish gunner]

the sheeple of the united states have continually been sold a bill of goods by the oil companies and the auto makers and the tire companies and the airlines for the past 60 years. they systematically dismantled the transportation infrastructure in this country. convincing every american that the only safe vehicle was a large heavy car/suv of a huge truck and that riding buses or trains was slow and demeaning. we went from one of the most efficient railway systems in the world to a nation that can't make trains run on time or efficiently to save our asses. look to the level of what amtrak has crumbled into and our rail frieght system as well. we have been crippled by the idea that travel has to be super-fast to get from NYC to LA in less than 4 hours; and we endure cramped seating and lousy service the elimination of refreshments enroute. gone are the leisurely comforts of a sleeper train that could take you across the country and have you arrived relaxed and fed and un-hassled by the long layovers and routing that takes you half way across the country to send you a few hundred miles south for your destination (explain to me again why i have to fly to St Louis to get to Florida from Pittsburgh) instead of the train that took 23 hours and i walked around on the train and enjoyed a decent meal in the dining car and went to the club car to enjoy a cigar and a drink and play cards or chess... went to the toilet and didn't have to perform some ritual contortion to relieve myself. the VW that i was told was so unsafe for years got 35mpg and ran for 963,000 miles before i sold it for more than i paid for it originally( it had become a classic in 25 years) last i knew it was still on the road driven by the young fellow i sold it to. simple and easy to care for engine could be rebuilt in a day with simple tools and no computer needed or college degree and it passed the emissions tests as long as it was kept tuned up. if i could i went by train or bus but where i live now i can't get a bus to anywhere. the last bus line gave up 2 years ago here. but the entire nation was led to believe that trains traveling at 125 mph weren't possible here. but tiny japan and france run them for years to full capacity. on my very last trans-continental train trip i actually made more money doing portrait drawings than my ticket cost me. but the corporate powers that be have continually told the american public and the leaders of government the same smoke and mirror tricks that got them in control to begin with. until somebody is willing to actualy fight back every attempt to move forward will be squelched by the money of world corporations to keep us under their collective thumbs like the flock of sheep that we have become willing to be.

[Lady Seahawke]

can we get an AMEN!!!

btw I did a google search on Lindsey Williams and found his website.

However it was a good bye message. http://www.lwoil.com/

Saying that after 30 years he was withdrawing ...out of concern for his family...and would not be doing anymore books lectures and DVDs.

Interesting isn't it.

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

When the government steps out of mandating to the engineers how to increase mileage, we'll see some progress.

Flip side of the coin- Why are there so many vehicles out there getting 50% of their rated mileage when a simple tune up and $2 worth of vacuum line will save them hundreds in gas? Why are so many lured to expensive water4gas scams? Common sense and mechanical ability have been breed out of society.

[Iron Hand]

.......Revolution.....Revolution........Revolution.......Revolution.......I beleive in Ancient Greek, the word "Politicain," means anyone payed outrageous amounts of Gold and Silver to ignore the general populaces needs and destroy their Liberties..........Amuck.....Amuck....Amuck....... ph34r: