Help with flag design

[Bloodrose]

Ahoy!

I was wondering if any of you artistic types might want to take a crack at this one. My fellow Long Island Captain, Captain Rhedd, is looking for new colors for his ship, the Devil's Chariot. His crew has a few events this season and could benefit with having a new flag. I have seen many good designs come out of the Pub and was wondering if any of you are so inclined to help. Here's a picture of Rhedd and his old flag - done up at the last minute and way too busy, but you get the idea (he's on the right).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Many thanks!

[MadL]

Tis a bit hard t' see details o' the whole flag; appears t' be a devil/demon skeleton hold'n ?? somethin' in each hand, somethin' perhaps a ship's wheel at the bottom, with a star 'n crescent moon above?

Perhaps it would help if ye tells the current mean'n behind the 'old design', such as what the celestial items currently represent, and o' course what is he currently hold'n in he's out stretched arms? Explanation such as how an hourglass been used to state t' th' prey "Yer time be run'n out!", 'er how heads been used t' represent the captain's most hated foes.

Ye say it be "too busy", now that be where I fall short t' seriously help as I too tend t' get 'busy' in designs, often they may look 'pretty' but for a flag in reason they most certainly fall out o' 'period' 'n become more "Hollywood/fantasy" this be true.

But perhaps; loose the celestial bodies, less'n have firm course for the ship's moto, then perhaps instead o' the 'wheel' item on th' bottom try change'n t' a simple ocean wave outline o' some sort t' become th' "chariot"? 'er e'en leave the bottom symbol out all t'gether see'n as how th' Jolly Roger usually depicts th' captain rather then th' ship....

[Rumba Rue]

My suggestions are:

Instead of going with a black background, go red.

Leave out the star and moon and just have the main figure.

[Bloodrose]

MadL - you are right, it is hard to see.

The current flag has a horned skeleton in a chariot holding a pitchfork in one hand and an hourglass in the other. The wheel you see is the wheel of the chariot. There is also a moon and star. Hardest to see is the stack of cannonballs at the bottom left of the chariot.

Rumba - I definitely like the idea of making the flag red, as he is Captain RHEDD, and he did say he wanted something different than the norm. Losing the moon and star is definitely an option as he wants it to be simple and recognizable.

Thank you both for weighing in - now, do ye know anyone who might be able to draw this up?

[Rumba Rue]

Well you could try contacting William Red Wake here at the Pub, he did the flag for our group (Pirates of Treasure Cove), and he's a fine artist.

[Bloodrose]

I was kinda hoping he'd pick up on this post

[William Brand]

I've been mulling it over...

When creating a flag, there are a few good rules of execution.

First - Keep it simple. A flag has to be quickly identifiable at a glance across open water while it is furling and unfurling. Simple icons and imagery are therefore the one and only way to go. These keeps them not only simple, but more period correct, which lends a flag a certain respectability on all fronts.

Second - A flag never has to be patterned after the name of a ship. Blackbeard's flag was his own. It didn't follow a theme per se, but rather followed him wherever he went from ship to ship. You don't have to use the icons of the devil or the chariot at all. Your flag could contain more ambiguous and threatening symbols used by the average pirate. Captain RHEDD's flag should be Captain RHEDD's flagg. If he wants it to be a flag which implies a devilish theme, than so be it.

Third - Despite the fact that a very specific look might be desired, I must always recommend a period look over a stylized look. I have created a number of stylized flags myself, including the flag for the Watch Dog, but the Watch Dog flag is not period. It is too detailed and the use of a dog skull and bones pushes it well beyond anything I can justify historically. My intention in designing it originally, was just to make it look cool, but in truth, most pirates would simply fly a country flag or a simple jack, so I still recommend more period than less.

Now, with these rules in mind you have to ask yourself a few questions. What do you want to convey? A skull is patent, and therefore appropriate. It could be a normal skull and bones with simple horns added, and that alone would be enough. While I have no period example of an animal skull being used, you could go that route by supplanting the human skull with the skull of a goat, thereby implying the devil motif. This would probably render it completely un-period, but it would have a very specific, evil look.

The chariot itself is superfluous, and I would recommend you lose it. More often then not it would come across as a cart or wagon, and neither of these are threatening, so ditch it. Even a chariot wheel could be mistaken for a ship wheel, and while that is nautical, it isn't very imposing.

I have no issue with the moon and star if you can explain the reasoning for them on your pirate flag. My own flag has three stars and a moon, but only because of a Moorish tie to my chosen character's past, so the symbols make sense.

The pitchfork is both devilish and nautical, as Neptune himself bears a trident. You could have a trident with a skull stabbed upon it. You could have crossed pitchforks under a skull with horns and center an hourglass over these. If you do a horned skull you could lose the tridents. If you do tridents, you could lose the horns. You can have both, but you wouldn't need both for a classic flag.

In the end, when making a flag you have to have a reason, plain and simple, behind each of the icons you use. In short, I would recommend something basic. A red background is period and appropriate for your captain, so that's a good place to start. A simple skull, horned or not. A trident or pitchfork for the devil tie in. Do it right without overdoing it and people will recognize it for years to come. Then it's up to you to make a reputation of fear to go with it.

[Ransom]

I'm rather partial to using a red background!

Captain Rhedd?....come on, what other color could it be? And as William has put so well, keep it simple.

[Bloodrose]

Thanks to everyone for your helpful advice.

Captain Rhedd has tentatively decided on these colors:

A skeletal winged monkey with a pitchfork on a red background.

He offers a personalized sandblasted bottle of his favorite rum to the person who comes up with the design he likes best.

[Bloodrose]

Correction: A skeletal winged monkey holding a pitchfork.

[Rumba Rue]

ok, I'll just look at it as Oz gone bad.

[Bloodrose]

LOL, Rumba...

Actually he's changed his mind after re-reading William's post. He's going to do a horned (human) skull with 2 crossed tridents below and an hourglass above on a red background. I did a rough layout last night and it looked pretty cool.

[roytheodd]

If might be easier just to list the motifs that the good Captain likes and allow the designers to lay them out somehow. So far I have read star, moon, pitchforks, monkeys, skull with horns, skeleton, chariot wheel, et al. That's a lot for a designer to work with if allowed the flexibility to pick and choose from that list. But I do understand if the Captain has something specific in mind.

[Merrydeath]

I have the design for my flag, thanks to the art of one of my crew, but I was wondering what all you used for material for the backing and the coloring? I found some black nylon that looks like cotton at $9 a yard, which dries quick but I heard that the paint wont stay on. Duck cloth is more period but it gets wet and then just hangs...

any ideas?

[Bloodrose]

MerryD - Mine is painted onto plain old cheap cotton material from Wal-Mart, and then sprayed with a finishing sealant I got from Michael's (the same as you spray on painted wood to seal it, it's a glue of some sort). It went through 2 thunderstorms this past weekend and nary a drop of paint was lost, It also dried out fairly quickly. But my crew actually likes when the flag gets a little wet and goes "thwap" when the wind blows; they feel like it ought to be wet from the spray of the sea anyhow.

Roy - He is going to round it down to 3 elements - most likely horned skull, trident, and hourglass.

[Capt Thighbiter]

Watch that horned skull dearie!

:-)