Which of Jas Townsend's garb is GAoP friendly?

[roytheodd]

So I find myself looking at Jas Townsend's 18th Century Mens' Clothing and much of it is labeled "1750s" or "1770s" and then some of it is labeled "18th century". Will any of that garb work with a Golden Age pirate costume? Is the 1750s Waistcoat really that different? How about the 18th Century Workshirt - Blue Check? You know, how much of their merchandise fits? I'm really just wondering how much fudge there is when shopping for Jas garb. Keep in mind that I'm not going for strict period but I want to come close to proper.

If you all are wondering why I'm so full of questions recently, it's because my tax rebate and economic stimulus check are going towards a full set of garb and arms. I want to get this close to correct because chances are slim I can spend next year's return in such a manner.

[Cut-throat]

In my opinion, the closest thing to GAoP accountrements on the Jas Townsend website is their hat blanks.

If you want historically accurate pieces, try searching for sutlers here....

http://www.piratebrethren.com/forum/index....9dea79db416d44d

Or just go to the best.......

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/histo...p?c=23&w=24&r=Y

[LadyBarbossa]

I'm with Cutthroat. As fabulous as Townsend is... they are more for the F&I and Rev War and 1812 war reenactors.

Not much of their items is for an earlier period.

Are ye lookin' for someone to make an outfit for ya, Roy?

~Lady B

[roytheodd]

Are ye lookin' for someone to make an outfit for ya, Roy?

Not exactly. I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting and from where, but in my "researching" of what to get I find a lot of things that look sort of piratey and then I have a hard time telling if it can pass or not. I'm not getting anything from Jas Townsend (not even a hat blank), but I've been to their site so many times looking at those vests and trying to figure if they could pass that I finally needed to ask. Mid 18th century looks sufficiently piratey to me that it challenges my perception of good garb.

P.S. I can't wait to order a shirt from Mary Diamond - they look awesome in the photos.

[LadyBarbossa]

Well.. if you are looking for more period attire... I thought G Gedney Godwin had something, but their 17th apparel are far too early for GAoP.

Check with Ghost Forge for their waistcoats. That's perhaps the closest.

From what images I saw... the waistcoat or justacorps were to the knees practically and so was the coat and was VERY poofy.

If ye need something, let me know.

Or call for help around here. I'm sure folks here are willing to help.

Aye.. Mary D has a find shirt there. :)

~Lady B

[Jacky Tar]

The Jas Townsend people sell well made products, in me humble opinion.

I've purchased a pair o' the fall front knee breeches and their hand finished tricorn; the tricorn I ordered wit' black trim and sans cockade, is a bargain at $35.

Now fer the purists, the breeches are machine sewed, but very nicely made. The tricorn is wool an not fur felt; they sell a fur felt hat which is considerably more expensive.

The good folks at Jas Townsend are honest merchants, an won't sell ye inferior products.

[Dirigoboy]

After lurking for a week or two, this is my first foray into the pirate realm to post on these threads. I've decided to land here.

I'm coming from a different historical period where authentically minded garment makers are more in abundance, and I can see that the struggle to find quality garment makers is more of a struggle for this time period.

I think the battle will always exist to find those who make garments based on research which is constructed out of similar 18th century materials and hand stitched per originals. Demand drives availability. Quality and authenticity have always been driving forces for me. Yes, you pay more for it, but the "look", which I assume we're all after, is more of a tribute to the time period being recreated.

I haven't fully looked around yet and am very unfamiliar still, but I think if I could field a question, it would be whether or not this site, or any site maintains a list of high quality manufacturers for the 18th century impressionist? If not, I think it would be beneficial, and I know I would frequent it.

If it doesn't exist, could it? I think it would greatly enhance the time period and cut down significant time in looking for quality craftsmen.

[roytheodd]

whether or not this site, or any site maintains a list of high quality manufacturers for the 18th century impressionist?  If not, I think it would be beneficial, and I know I would frequent it.

If there is a site that hosts such information I am not aware of it. I have had to research every item singly before deciding on what to purchase. Quite a few of my items are simply being made to order rather than bought ready made from a store.

[Dirigoboy]

As I said, I'm still learning my way around the pirate fleet, but I did recently join a Yahoo group called potccostuming. They have some very knowledgeable people there who do make garments, plus some nice photo documentation of garments from POTC to look at and compare.

They seem like a very experienced group and have some decent resources. You might check in and take a look.

[michaelsbagley]

Not to sound like a broken record... But Reconstructing History, who make (in my opinion) the best patterns for the period (and possibly the only commercially available patterns for the period) used to sell some pre-made clothes... To my knowledge they no longer do so (although they may still do custom orders). I believe they stopped carrying production clothes for the period because the market for historically accurate pirates wasn't big enough to support the effort (please understand this is my observation and may not be the real story).

As for POTC costuming... I am not on that yahoo group, nor am I likely to join... But the POTC costuming was not historically accurate. There were some elements that were similar or based on historic styles, but most of the historic elements were taken from after the Golden Age of piracy. I am not an expert on 18th century costuming, but most of the POTC stuff looked to me like it was 1740s to 1760s. Which puts it about 20 plus years after the end of the Golden Age, and yeah that can make a huge difference on styles and popular clothing.

As for an "All-in-one" resources... This forum, specially the "Captain's Twill" section is pretty good... Of course the information is nice and cohesive and a lot of info would require the rarely used "Search" function... Although Patrick Hand did a freaking awesome job of collecting most of the best topics on clothing and putting the links to the topics in a "Stickied" post... Actually he did it twice, once in "Twill", and once in "Plunder"... Just going through his list would put anyone who wants the information light years ahead of any casual pirate enthusiast.

[Dirigoboy]

Well yes, but then again, I didn't feel that I could render a decision on liver until I'd tried it.

One thing I have learned in many years of living history is that all of the resources exist, but they often need to be excavated----and sometimes from unlikely sources. As well, sharing that information along the way is not only a courtesy, but critical to broadening the interest and growth of whatever historical period we're engaged in.

I'm not necessarily advocating this website as a new catchall, it's simply being offered as a resource in which to glean from. To say that you're not likely to visit it is a personal choice, but in doing so you rather invalidate your opinion of it. Having just joined it, I'm still looking around, but I'm remaining open until I've examined it. I'm doing the same here.

I am sorry to hear that the search function on this particular website is so under utilized. The ones I frequent on my other historical websites get quite a workout. I'll make it a point to push the button to take a tour of Mr. Hand's research as suggested. It sounds extensive. Thanks for the tip.

[michaelsbagley]

Well yes, but then again, I didn't feel that I could render a decision on liver until I'd tried it.

I actually do enjoy liver...

One thing I have learned in many years of living history is that all of the resources exist, but they often need to be excavated----and sometimes from unlikely sources. As well, sharing that information along the way is not only a courtesy, but critical to broadening the interest and growth of whatever historical period we're engaged in.

I'm not necessarily advocating this website as a new catchall, it's simply being offered as a resource in which to glean from. To say that you're not likely to visit it is a personal choice, but in doing so you rather invalidate your opinion of it. Having just joined it, I'm still looking around, but I'm remaining open until I've examined it. I'm doing the same here.

In my years of re-enacting and living history, Hollywoodmovies have been about the best source of misinformation for any period I have done. And I am not disparaging the yahoo group as a resource, but I am saying as someone who has seen the movies, I know they are not accurate. So using common sense, a yahoo group named (and presumably focussing on) the movie costuming is likely not going to be of any use to me for historical information. Perhaps the yahoo group is misnamed and the discussions there are about historic costuming and not costuming based on the hollywood fantasy movie? Who am I to say one way or the other... Buy I have cast my bet on it being not worth my time and I am at peace with that.

I am sorry to hear that the search function on this particular website is so under utilized. The ones I frequent on my other historical websites get quite a workout. I'll make it a point to push the button to take a tour of Mr. Hand's research as suggested. It sounds extensive. Thanks for the tip.

Not that it matters much, but to give due credit where it is due... I was creditting Mr. Hand with collecting all the discussion threads in a nice easy list (although he contributed to many of the discussion on the various threads as well)... Most of the information contained within those threads are the result of a agreat many very knowledgable people, most who are still on the forum, some who seem to be scare lately, or perhaps some that have moved on altogether.

Some other resources you may want to check out if you are interested in the history or the period are listed below...

The Pirate Brethren Forum is a forum dedicated to the re-enactment and historically accurate depiction of pirates during the Golden age of Piracy

Late Colonial American Reenactor Forum is a newer forum that is dedicated to the same time line as the Golden Age of piracy, but the focus is more general.

The Pirate Mythtory is a section of the UK pirate group Bonadventure dedicated to providing historically accurate information on pirates and piracy.

Gentleman Of Fortune is another good resource for pirate information online.

There are plenty more good sources... References to POTC generally are a quick and easy indicator (for me) that the information being presented is based more on the fantasy or mythical image of pirates. Don't get me wrong, I love the movies, but I know Hollywood entertainment and historical accuracy rarely (if ever) coexist.

I also made a typo in my last post.. Where I typed

Of course the information is nice and cohesive and a lot of info would require the rarely used "Search" function...

I meant to type "Of course the information is NOT nice and cohesive and a lot of info would require the rarely used "Search" function... " But I don't think the point I was trying to make was lost.

[LadyBarbossa]

True, Michael, the costumes in PotC are around the 1740s (though some argued that, but to me that's what most of them looked like to me).

But I can't always discredit them totally. There are a good majority of films that are not historically accurate or authentic. But a couple of them are close, even at 50%. Again, Professional Costumers for films over ametuers? And their stuff does encourage folks to research.

I've found some interesting stuff all because of researching into a couple PotC outfits... example being Elizabeth Swann's Gold Ceremony gown with the gorgeous stomacher with the spangles... or the whitework petticoat. I've seen this gown upclose and it did astound me at how detailed the Costumers went to get a good part of it as accurate as possible, even making it a Robe a la Anglise. Barbossa's frock coat is mighty interesting, too, seeing as it's in a pre-smocking style which created just the tubing giving it that quilted look. All those above being 18th c details to fashion.

Though a hodge podge... it makes one wonder and look and research. I won't say it's historically accurate, but it comes pretty darn close and it's perhaps closer in costuming than what "The Patriot" was. Haha, I still know people who are incredibly furious over that film cause of the screwed up Green Dragoon uniforms and such.

Anyway, back to the main program.

Yes, you most likely will have to find a private "costumer" who will be willing and able to create the desired outfit, Roy.

I'm presuming you have a look already in mind?

~Lady B

[Dirigoboy]

I won't disagree with what you're saying, but I think in the final analysis, what I am saying is that whether it's a pirate portrayed accurately or inaccurately by Johnny Depp, or Errol Flynn, the end product serves to whet the appetitite of the masses---and then it's up to us to dig deeper to garner our truths. Sadly, most people don't want or need that, they just like the "look."

I have worked in film, both on a couple of large projects and on smaller projects such as Indy film or the History Channel, and it is always among the latter two where you will find the more authentic living historians (why is that?). From a distance however, it's going to take a practiced eye to discern the difference between the two entities, yet in the end even the larger project plays a role in enticement. We can punch holes in it, but John Q. Public would never spot the differences. Ultimately, the reasons lie within each of us to search and research.

I'm looking forward to researching the material culture of this historical period further and I'll take a serious look at the resources mentioned above. Many thanks to those who put in the time to provide it, and to those who share that information with the rest of us.

[roytheodd]

I meant to type "Of course the information is NOT nice and cohesive and a lot of info would require the rarely used "Search" function... " But I don't think the point I was trying to make was lost.

The search function was my primary means of research. There is a lot of good information on this site and others and there are some incredible vendors out there too, and some clever searches will yield nearly all of it here. When I couldn't find something I simply asked and the answers were courteously given. This site and its member is quite a resource.