What is the proper length for slops?

[roytheodd]

I'm getting ready to order me a pair of slops, but the tailor I'm buying from seems to have really long inseams for standard sizes. She can customize for an additional fee. How low should slops hang: top of the shoe, mid-calf, just below the knee?

[MadL]

Most slops I have seen appear t' be about mid calf to just below the knee. As I understand it from reading, that the slop generally be a pair o' loose fitting fer t' wear o'r the breeches 'n keep them clean. I have seen some somewheres that hung down t' th' ankles 'n where a tighter fit, more like 'pants' of themselves yet called slops, however if I recall correct they were also referred to as having been modeled after ones in the later 1800s.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I won't say exactly what proper is, but if you look at pictures of sailors/pirates from about 1710-1726, they range, as you say, from the bottom of the calf(ish)

To ankle length

If you got nice muscular calves, go with slops that show them off...

If not, just do what your heart tells you... but I think anything below the calf and above the ankle would be easy to defend.

GoF

[roytheodd]

Thanks all.

[MadL]

Gentleman of Fortune, is what Blackbeard there to be considered 'slops' or 'pants'? See'n as how he appears t' be all dandied up and all, what with his beard a'lit 'n a walking cane fer goin' ashore 'n striking such a pose 'n all. Not to mention, just how often would a captain take t' wearin' slops?

And the first pic again appear to be a group o' scoundrels also all dandied up fer a frolic through town, one o' them even be flash'n a string o' pearls from he's hat, which appear for t' be a bribe 'r perhaps payment e'n t' the fine pretty lass that stand just outside the cameraman's lens o' focus

It would seem t' me that if they was t' be go'n int' town for t' impress the ladies then they would leave their slops on ship 'n dawn their Sunday finest.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Good Question.....

Here is the thing... "Pants" (lets call em' trousers for the sake of this post, otherwise, our British friends will be laughing too hard to actually read what we are writing) Trousers come onto the scene for use in western society around the GAoP time frame.

***To be honest though, I am not sure if they were used prior to the GAoP or just come "back" into fashion during this time***

And the first place we can readily identify trousers is on sailors.

IMHO, before the GAoP, we have a combination of Knee Breeches being worn and the end of the use of Petticoat Breeches. Its hard to say whether trousers are elongated breeches without the knee gathers or are modification of the petticoat breeches... as they are different things altogether.

But anyway, we start seeing them on sailors during the GAoP first, and Foxe has pointed out that English Sailors were recognized by other nation's sailors because they were wearing the long trousers (implying that nobody else was wearing them at the time).

Slops is a tricky word to use, because at the time of the GAoP, "Slops" meant all the sailor's clothing as a whole. Its later in the 18th century that "slops" means the short, baggy things that we associate with sailors.

Kass, in a post here or on the PB site (a few years ago) asked the question of when the short slops come on the scene... it was a bit of a rhetorical question as her research was not finding an abundance of proof for them during the GAoP.

Someone else here at the pub was able to find a contemporary picture in an obscure Dutch source that had a Dutch Sailor wearing "slops" (the short ones) that was dated to the GAoP, but that is about all that was found.

On the other hand, Slop Trousers are found in lots of pictures (the ones I posted above were from Woodes Rogers account (1712) and Johnson's 1726 work. But there are LOTS more.

(Check out this page for more info http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/basic_kit.htm )

So, to finally answer question about what Black Beard is wearing, they are considered "Slop Trousers". I wouldn't think that Black Beard is actually that "Dandied" up in the picture (at least clothes wise).. on the contrary, he seems to be wearing what a typical sailor would be wearing during the time... Slop Trousers, Short Jacket and buckle shoes.

The Group of Guys are pillaging a group of Spanish Ladies, as told in Woodes Rogers account A Cruising Voyage Round the World.

On the coast of Peru , Rogers raided several rich Spanish colonies, including the city of Guayaquil . His privateers exacted an enormous ransom from the citizens. .

Again, the pirates are wearing what we would typically expect historical pirates to be wearing. Slop trousers short jackets, and buckle shoes.

While this type of clothing goes against the grain of contemporary re-enactor wisdom, its what we see over and over again depicted in period pictures and in written text (from the ASCs to Sailors wills and probate sales).

Hope it helped...

GoF

[MadL]

Too bad they could not take photos back then. One o' those scalawags in the first drawing I just noticed has not one but two row o' buttons on he's short coat.

The photo o' the gent on the link http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/basic_kit.htm is what I always thought of as slops, but now I know more (and I had read that page before, just didn't pick up on all that the first time )

Now this 'pants' thing for the British, is that like another forum what once sent some folk rolling for hearing that Americans keep clothes in their closets? ....turns out 'closet' in some countries is actually the toilet, they could not figure out why on earth crazy Americans flush their clothes down the toilet...???

[Dutchman]

here is an aspect that is not touched on too often regarding the length of slops/ baggy trousers issue. the practical use. i have trimmed about two inches off my pair simply because i was getting fouled in them going up and down companion ways. they end up about three or four inches below the knees. another concern is going aloft in them. imagine our forefathers dancing in the rigging with those things flapping around and getting hung somewhere!!!!! not many would argue the prudent sailor would certainly leave them on deck. just a little food for thought.