American economy situation

[Matusalem]

I'm just curious how everyone is making out with gas prices, etc., and if any of the slowdown is affecting you yet. Here in NJ, gasoline is $3.05/gal (and that includes madatory full-serve), yet I cross the stateline to NY and it is $3.56/gal (self serve) . I just found out my bank (Citibank) is posting a $5.2 bil. loss. Things sound kind of shaky lately.

[Red-Handed Jill]

Wow - gas is that cheap out there?

Here in the San Francisco area (where pretty much costs more), gas is already past $4 per gallon. I suspect it's the same in Hawaii. I'm very happy my Saturn gets better gas mileage than a Prius, but I am adjusting the way I drive to eke out even more efficiency. So far, I'm saving a gallon a week.

And I'm glad Jack is having me manage his portfolios - I got him into American Funds. They'll go further into a cash position rather than let their funds hemorrhage.

[Ransom]

In Grants Pass, gas hasn't hit $4 a gal. yet, but it's getting close. Since for me, going into town is a 22 mile round trip, I plan those trips carefully, and get as much done as possible.

I wonder if the gas crunch will have an effect on how many people attend events, both the reenactors and the gen. public?

[William Blydes]

We north of your boarder have hit the $1.20/L

That's about $4.80 USG. Even with our dollar a couple cents bellow par that is more.

Of course, we have much more tax on our fuel.

Considering we export 1million barrels a day (we produce 3mill and consume 2mill) we really ought to be less.

You guys produce 8mill/day and consume 20mill/day.

World Oil consumption/production rates

Exporting 1mill/day is the reason our ecomomy is so strong. And we have a ballanced budget with troops in the field.

[roytheodd]

I'm in one of those lousy, enviable positions. I live about 4 miles from work so even though gas prices are high it's not killing me. I bank at a credit union that is rock solid. I'm about six months away from being debt free, and I have a government job that is in no jeopardy. As much as the economy is pinching people I feel somewhat immune to it so far. I know it'll catch up to me as prices on everything go up, but so far it's smooth sailing. I'm going to use my economic stimulus check to buy pirate garb.

[Zephaniah W Nash]

I'm lucky in that, for the most part, I live and work at the same place -- one of the few good points to farming and ranching, very little gas to and from work. Diesel prices to run the farm equipment, though... It's looking like we'll be relying on volunteer crops this year to avoid plowing prices. And, beef prices are up.

We also have some revenue coming in from natural gas wells, so on that end, the higher energy prices go, the better off we are. In the winter months, it was also right nice that we get our natural gas for free, so heating the place costs nothing. Summer is coming, though, and we haven't invested in one of those natural gas air conditioners just yet, so that could be pretty painful.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

That a pretty confident outlook considering. How is it you are so certain that your job is not in jeopardy? Do you work for the Clinton Damage control team or the Obama damage control team? (just funnin with ya!)

We went from 3.19 last night to 3.24 this morning. I went to the dentist and got twoo teeth removed, (started out to do one), and went to the pharmacy to get the antibiotic, (and NO PAIN MEDS!!!)and in that two hours time went from 3.24 to 3.33. My jaw hurts and my wallet is empty!

Bo

[roytheodd]

How is it you are so certain that your job is not in jeopardy?

I work for a public utility company. We make money no matter the economy.

[Coastie04]

Well, I've been bent over here in Juneau. The gas prices are 'reasonable' at about 3.60-4.00 (depending on the station). However, we just had a large avalanche that knocked down about a mile and a half of transmittion line from our main hydro plant. They don't think they'll even be able to get crews out there for 2-3 weeks due to the high avalanche danger, and expect it to be 2-3 months until repairs are completed. Thus, they're using diesel generators for the entire town's power, and electricity prices are going to be going up 400-500% from the current (no pun intended) 11 cents/kw-hour to around 50 cents/kw-hour. They politicians are trying to get us declared as a natural disaster area for state and federal funding to help offset the price increase. Of course, that's not including the price increase of absolutely everything else here due to fuel prices. Everything is either barged up or flown in, since there are no roads connecting us to the rest of the country.

Coastie

[lady snow]

our gas rpices in ne pa have gotten to about #.45. i'm not driving anywhere i don't have to - ride with a friend to rehearsals to save money - we share split the gas costs. i will be oging to fairie fest - camping on site for $10 bucks for the weeknd and a friend is riding with me to split costs. i have to spend the weekend with my kids on campus soon and we stay at a cheap (costwise) hotel and the school gives us meals as part of the family weekend. i'm not spending anym,ore than i have to and tax refund and economic stimulas check comes in really handy.

[Misson]

We north of your boarder have hit the $1.20/L

That's about $4.80 USG. Even with our dollar a couple cents bellow par that is more.

It seems to me (living right near Ontario) that gas has been near $3-$4 a gallon for quite a long time now, hasn't it? Long before gas hit $2+ a gallon in the states, if I remember correctly. (Which I may not.) I do remember it being above $2 a gallon when it was still $1 here.

I think the economy is curious in that its state seems to depend largely on each individual's personal perception of its state resulting in majority actions that create that state. Certainly, the external situation has impact, but I'll bet it's at least 60% perception and 40% other stuff. So when enough people believe the economy is bad or getting bad, they stop spending and it gets bad. If enough people think it's good or getting good, they spend and it's good. In the 90s, we were told by many sources how great the economy was. So it was. In the 00s we have been told how bad it is (and yet people still thought it was pretty good, so we have actually had something of a boom economy since 2003 until recently. Interestingly, many people thought we had a bad economy but figured their situation was different based on the input they were getting.)

As often happens before a presidential election, we are being stridently told how horrific the economy is, which enters into the perception equation for many people. So it looks bad. I shall be interested to see how it looks 6-12 months after the new president (whomever that may be). I'll bet you have a whole different feel at that point. Time will tell.

If collective consciousness exists, the concept of "the economy," at least in the US, has to be one manifestation of such.

[lady snow]

now, my family income was basically cut in half about 16 months ago when my husband died. butr i am in pretty much the same shape - have a roof over my head, food in my stomach, clothes to wear, have my health (however it be) and muy family. i was never a really big spender. i hate soending money. but i take my boys placces, eat out ....

i'm happy and that's all that matters.

[hurricane]

Mission is dead on. We create our own reality. The Great Depression occurred primarily because of panic. A run on any bank, if not all banks, creates a shortage of cash in the system. If we want to believe a recession is on the way and spend accordingly, it will manifest itself. It's a trickle down issue. We curb spending, business runs short of cash because of reduced sales, they layoff people, people spend less because they've been laid off. A simplification but basically, that's how it works.

My wife and I keep buying, threat of recession be damned. I could hold onto the money but with the increased inflation that comes with a recession, it's worth less anyway. If I would have kept a dollar in the 70s when the gas crisis hit, it would only be worth 50 cents today. Even if it was in the best savings plan possible, it couldn't have made the dollar it was initially worth.

We create our own futures. Sure gas is overpriced. So is flour. But there are areas to cut back on that is pure waste rather than contributors to the economy. Every family wastes money. By cutting a little here and there ($4 lattes, perhaps) you can still fuel the economy and your car at the same time.

Again, lots of simplification here. But we do create our own realities. Want a recession, panic accordingly.

-- Hurricane

[withoutaname]

if I think about it, the cold reality is strongly there. I work at an airline, in a training department, making/supporting training courses (eLearning) or teaching other developers how to do so. Which means, as much as my happy little airline doesn't want to lay anyone off, i would still be in the first dept to go if a merger happened. Shall I say, us design folks are the first to usually go.

Oil is sitting above 110 per barrel, jet fuel is about 3.50 a gallon and it costs me 3.54 in NY (where I have to pump it myself...) to fill my cute little elantra. I put 20 a week in my car in gas, and if it hits empty before the week is out, I don't have to drive- I take the subway anyway.

I am worried, but not on the every day kind of worry. More in the back of my head, I can see the elephant, I say hi every now and again, but I am not chatting with it or about it regularly. Lliving in the NYC metro area where the cost of real estate keeps going up, keeps the elephant a more subtle maroon, rather than hot pink. But it is still there.

Studio apt, new construction going for about 420,000 in my area of Brooklyn. Talk about a bubble. There are so many new buildings in my area, people are worried about how your going to ride the subway in the morning, because as of now- you wait 3 trains to squeeze in like a sardine. Trains run every 3 minutes, but the delays are awful because of the amt of people getting on and off at each stop. What is going to happen when the estimated 25 mill plus move into Williamsburg by 2012?

The bigger question- whats going to happen when NYCs economy catches up with the rest of the country? I have friends on Long Island who have been laid off "due to cost cut backs" within the last month. Yet here, people are still shopping, living and building condos like the country isn't in a financial situation. Which in fact it is. I want to run around telling people "Don't use credit" yet a drop my AMEX down when I have to for a new pair of pants (or 3 yards of linen).

I think the problem is driving itself. People's debt is extremely high, loans (both home/school/etc) have such large 30 year payments that people can't really afford the lifestyle they are living just so they can have a nice roof over their head and a college education. Jobs don't pay enough to meet the after college debt you already have. At 25 I walked out with 3 degrees and about 70K, and the gov't said hey you make enough to pay 640 a month for 10 years! And i replied, yes I do, but I would be living in a cardboard box and not showering, then losing my job to do it!

The gov't continues to drop the worth of the dollar which continues to drive inflation even harder. Then they take at least 25% (or in my case 33.5%) off the top of your income just in taxes. Not counting the SS you will never see. Yet, I don't see anything for the amount I pay. Ohh but I do get an extra 600 bucks back this year. WTF? That 600 bucks is really only going to get me 300 bucks worth of crappy goods anyway.

Ok, I am going back to my happy little sewing adventure now. It is safer on the couch away from this internet thing.

[Misson]

I think the problem is driving itself. People's debt is extremely high, loans (both home/school/etc) have such large 30 year payments that people can't really afford the lifestyle they are living just so they can have a nice roof over their head and a college education. Jobs don't pay enough to meet the after college debt you already have.

All of which, like the place you live, are choices on some level. As Hurricane said, if you look closely at the spending choices you make, you can uncover a plethora of ways to cut costs. (If your job is that shaky, start looking for another now. It's much harder to find one when you don't have one because you have to explain why you're not working. It's that perception thing.)

[withoutaname]

All of which, like the place you live, are choices on some level. As Hurricane said, if you look closely at the spending choices you make, you can uncover a plethora of ways to cut costs. (If your job is that shaky, start looking for another now. It's much harder to find one when you don't have one because you have to explain why you're not working. It's that perception thing.)

Agreed, I make a choice to live in Brooklyn. It is the city but near enough to my family that I can drive within an hour, and I pay the same amount of rent as I would to be out of the city. I also grew up near here, and like my life style. yes, I could go move somewhere else, make about half the money and have half the cost of living plus the increase of having to get a car for my other half to get to work in, just doesn't make sense. Our income vs expenditure percentage wouldn't change, just the hard numbers.

There is a difference between location living costs and job income vs. making the same amount of money and buying 400 dollar sunglasses and 200 dollar spa treatments when you can't afford rent and bounce checks. Many people who I know have done this. We live on a strict budget, so we can be comfortable and afford things that are priority to us. I love getting my nails done and drinking 5$ lattes everyday as much as the next girl, but I have been 15K in debt between credit cards and car payments and I don't plan on ever doing that again. Which is why I feel like shouting to the world "Stop Charging!"

As a side note my job isn't that shaky and I keep it to afford our long term relocation and boat buying plans, plus I know I am more stable right now at a large company than a small one in which i would make double the income once the bubble becomes reality here.

[Misson]

There is a difference between location living costs and job income vs. making the same amount of money and buying 400 dollar sunglasses and 200 dollar spa treatments when you can't afford rent and bounce checks. Many people who I know have done this. We live on a strict budget, so we can be comfortable and afford things that are priority to us.  I love getting my nails done and drinking 5$ lattes everyday as much as the next girl, but I have been 15K in debt between credit cards and car payments and I don't plan on ever doing that again. Which is why I feel like shouting to the world "Stop Charging!"

True. There is a fine line between continuing to purchase and spending foolishly. As you say, "We live on a strict budget, so we can be comfortable and afford things that are priority to us." That about sums it up. Of course, other people choose differently and they get themselves into their own financial situations, which it is then their responsibility to budget (as you do) and get themselves out of that particular result of bad choices.

"I believe every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation, every possession a duty." -John. D. Rockefeller, Jr.

[MadL]

Here in NJ, gasoline is $3.05/gal (and that includes madatory full-serve)....

"Mandatory Full-Service" ye says???

'n just what is this 'mandatory full-service' ye speaks of? Are ye required to fill up all th' way full? 'r perhaps the stations in this NJ are all wenches, eh?!

....$3.80 per gallon here 'n we don't even get 'serviced'...but then I not be see'n any stations with wenches a work'n them so that be ok by me

[Littleneckhalfshell]

"Mandatory Full-Service" ye says???

'n just what is this 'mandatory full-service' ye speaks of?

Here in NJ you are not allowed to pump your own gas, No Self Serve Allowed, so are at the mercy of the guy who does not fully screw your gas cap back on, and causes a 'check engine light' to come on.

I think NJ and one other state are the only two that have mandatory full service by state law. (is the other one Oregon maybe?) anyway, it is a PITA as far as I am concerned. But then they keep telling us that we have the lowest gas prices in the USA, Still it is too high.

[Misson]

PITA Pacific International Trapshooting Association

PITA Pacific Islands Telecommunications Association

PITA Palestinian Information Technology Association

PITA People for the Intelligent Treatment of Animals

PITA Pipeline Integrity Technology Associates

PITA Prevention of Immoral Trafficking Act (India)

I like that last one.

[Matusalem]

PITA Prevention of Immoral Trafficking Act (India)

Whatever is considered immoral, is all relative, depending on whom you speak to. I have been telling my friends for years that I work for a K street lobby group that wants to re-institute the whaling industry to help provide jobs for economically depressed coastal new England towns like New Bedford. Jobs are all that matters. Screw those environmental wackos! I try to keep a straight face while saying it.

Actually, I cannot stand full-serve gas in NJ anymore. You have to wait 5 minutes for an attendant to unscrew the tank lid then wait another 5 minutres while he's transacting credit cards for 5 other cars. I would be so much faster if I could driveup to the pump, slip in my atm card, pump, then drive away...but nooooo.

[Misson]

What I wonder is...what is "immoral trafficking?" It seems like such an odd marriage of terms. Morality itself is like so many other things - consensus driven. Kind of like the economy, actually. (Thus we close the circle.)

[Matusalem]

What I wonder is...what is "immoral trafficking?"

In the case of PITA, probably an Indian legal term.

I recall a few years ago, a ship called the Golden Venture ran aground near NY city, and the USCG found hundreds of illegal immigrants, mostly Chinese, that were being boated over here to work in the sweat shops in the garment district. This is about a quarter step above slavery. The living conditions aboard the ship were appalling. the captain did not even notify the harbormaster that his ship was coming in because 1. he was trying to avoid the authorities, and 2. he did not speak English.

I'm sure this story gets repeated quite frequently, especially in Long Beach, Ca.

[Patrick Hand]

OH... PITA (like the flat bread) not PETA ( the group that says I'm keeping my kitty as a slave, and even after trying to emancipate my kittly, he wants me to write nasty letters to PETA and tell them to leave him alone...)

Rats... misunderstood something.........

Sorry fer waisting yer tyme.......

[Misson]

Patrick's emancipated kitty!

As for people trafficking...that's not nearly as interesting as the term "Immoral Trafficking." Picture the trafficking of immorals...

On another economic note, I found this article quite interesting and well thought out on the topic of environmentalism and trade. It's not nearly as exciting as arguing that such and such industry should be punished for their behavior. Instead it actually makes some financial sense. Cheers to that. (The comments about tariffs and solar panels I found particularly interesting. Then again, I don't think there should ever be tariffs, so I guess I would find that interesting.)

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.a...293669042232122