the color red

[Dutchman]

the other week i was down in the colonial city and noticed the militia had on maroon smocks. I didn't think much about it and noticed it again this past weekend. i was on the phone with someone from their wardrobe department today and just mentioned it.

her reply was interesting- it seems their view of red that was available at the time has been off. they are redoing some of the red wardrobes because of this. british red (as in redcoat) is still right, but the colonial red is more maroon. she said she would e-mail me the sources when she sends me some other stuff next week.

yeah ,i know its not our period but still makes ya think.

[Red Maria]

I know madder was used for colonial redcaots because they harvest the madder root at the Herb Garden here and it is used to dye coats for the reenactors at Colonial Williamsburg (or at least some of them). Maybe a different mondrant was used in the colonies. I'll ask Judy who does stuff for Colonial Williamsburg next time I see her.

BTW madder was used during the GAoP so it's not that OT.

[Dutchman]

intersting, i had no idea madder existed. Having bad allergies, smelling the flowers so to speak is not on my to do list. As far as dying anything, my extent goes as far as black walnut shells and coffee grounds. maybe if someone recalls a post we can resurect or head this one in the direction of dying I would be interested in figuring out how the colors of the day were made.

the other thing was the work smock. they are being seen more there.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

I sincerely hope this does not lead to another over-represented thing like walnut-dyed longhunters.

Bo

[michaelsbagley]

Damn, I found a link to madder dying on some Rev-War web site a few weeks back.... The web site cited sources that were well within the GAoP, and had a period recipe for "British Red" using madder...

I posted a link to the web site on another forum and didn't save it for myself...

I would try and look it up, but that chat board has since been closed down.... I'll try and take another look for it and post it if I find it, but I am not feeling very hopeful about it...

[Dutchman]

well, we covered the walnut and red.

i was thinking more like what makes blues, greens, etc . . . .

speaking of blue .. i died an old light blue weskit royal blue. it turned out even and nice but man is it bright. what can be used to tone it down without darkening it like coffee or walnut would do? its linen without a liner.

[michaelsbagley]

In period woad and indigo were used for blue dyes.... Indigo was imported from the Indian Ocean, so Woad was the cheaper and more common of the two.... Unfortunately woad isn't as potent or intense as indigo... Both created navy blue colours, but a lot of woad was needed to create a colour as dark as using a lesser amount of indigo. Using a lesser amount of woad would get you a faded navy blue (light bleached blue jeans).

For yellows, weld was used... As well as some others, like Broom (the plant not the thing you sweep the floor with)...

Greens could be made using a mix of weld and woad, or weld and indigo... Or through other means as well... Sometimes a blend of substances, and sometimes a single substance... I don't know much about period green dyes...

I think that covers about the extent of my period dyeing knowledge... Other than to say that metals of the pot (or added to the dye bath) could affect the intensity of the colour, or even change the colour sometimes, as well as the acidity or alkalinity of the dye bath could affect the intensity or tone of colour as well.

[Red Maria]

Again both woad and indigo are grown in the herb garden here. Woad dying is one of the nastiest jobs in the world. In fact it ended up as one of the Worst Jobs in History Tudor with Tony Robinson (Baldrick in the Blackadder series). Here's what he said about woad dying:

Welcome to the world of woad – an invasive weed that, with a few simple pieces of equipment, fermented urine and wheat bran, can transform your world. Why not try your hand at woad processing and dyeing and discover a blue tone last used as body paint by the Picts in Roman Britain?

We are reliably informed that a poor sense of smell, or no sense of smell at all, would be a definite advantage in this job, unless you are one of those who find the aroma of cabbage mixed with excrement and cat wee particularly appealing. A desire to live outside the city walls, whence you and all your fellow workers will be banished, would also be a plus. This stuff stinks, but where there's muck, there's brass.

[Dutchman]

er um- oh my! note to self- stay away from woad.

[Red Maria]

Yeah it stinks! Elizabeth I decreed that there could be no woad production within 5 miles from whereever she was. OTOH it does make a beautiful shade of blue.

[Dutchman]

wow. ok so woad stinks . callico was heavily taxed/ banned from the colonies for a while. longhunters like walnut....