wooden firebox??

[Black Dog]

I have seen one wooden framed fire box aboard a replica vessel in Deltaville, Va this last August. I don't remeber the name of the ship but do remember the firebox. I have been looking for designs and documentation on fireboxes and their use. I did find a reference - Galley of the Avondster - which gave a discription of the construction but no sketch. The drawings in the article only showed open firepits. From what I can gather the fireboxes were the in between stage preceding the iron pits or stoves around 1728. The larger vessels had the giant masonary / stone firepits. Smaller ones would have probably used the fireboxes. I am trying to verify the period they were used in and find an actual design - or better yet a scale drawing. Most pyrate fests I have seen the cooking is all done around the good ol' fire pit.

When was the last time you saw an open fire aboard a ship?

Blackdog aka Willie the Rumrunner - aka Cookie - blackbeardscrew

[Patrick Hand]

I have to look it up.... but in the Smithsonnian.... that river boat, didn't it have a plate of metal,a buncha sand for the base, sourounded by bricks to hold a fire to cook stuff on?

[Black Dog]

Goggle the avondster - it describes a closed wooden box wtih sand/salt in the bottom - lined with copper or tin. Enough room for a pot or 2 at the top - not much more. This design was probably meant for a smaller vessel - like a coastal sloop. I have a rough sketch based on the description in the article but was hoping for someone who may have better information.

Wonderful time of year to scrap barnicles, aah?,

Cookie

[Littleneckhalfshell]

http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/QAR/techSeri...QAR-B-07-03.pdf

this article mentions both the Queen Ann's Revenge and the Whydah.

It refers to three brick/tile pieces recovered from the QAR

A line drawing of what the Brick Galley Stove might have looked like is provided.

[Black Dog]

Mates - I did find out the name of the vessel I saw the firebox on. The Maryland Dove. I have been looking for contact information at this point - if anyone knows the folks involved in that fine ship - please give me a heads up.

If anyone has more documentation as to the use of wooden framed fireboxes aboard ship - please feel free to add it.

hmmmm - time to fix some victuals,

Cookie

[Silver]

blackdog, i did find a drawing of a portable wood buring stve being used on deck of the "victoria" in 1518. it is in a time life book titled the "explorers" page 142 check any libary. if you are looking to inhance your cooking impression it could be a go. check with the govenor.

[blackjohn]

Was this something you saw aboard the Dove? Or ashore? I've seen a "firebox" used by the Dove, or Saint Mary's, ashore. It was designed, I believe, with protecting the archaeologically sensitive grounds at Saint Mary's City in mind. As per an email conversation I had recently with her captain:

Cooking fire will be limited to the sandbox we provide, or a similar device you provide.  Since the site is archaeologically sensitive, we can’t be charring the ground –so for any additional fires you will need to bring a 3-ft square of 2x6’s or the like, with mason’s sand or play sand to protect the soil.  The box we provide will be complete with sand, bricks, and a pot rack to hang your pots.

The box he mentions is somewhat visible in the background of the last photo on the following link. I don't believe I have a better picture of it.

http://www.piratebrethren.com/saintmarys07...07/smc0703.html

With that, VanHorn, in her Master's thesis, mentions two cookstoves recovered from wrecks - one from the Defence, the other from the Rose Hill wreck. The cookstove from the Defence was a large brick structure with a cauldron inside, not something designed to be moved from ship to shore. The Rose Hill was constructed of cast iron plates. It is surmised that the stove was lashed to the deck through a set of iron rings, and thus being easier to move.

Pics can be viewed on page 213 of this pdf.

[Black Dog]

Aye Blackjohn,

I do remember the crew saying that was one of the reasons they used the firebox. I did ask if there was any documentation as to it's use aboard ships. The lad was unsure as to what documentation they had but he felt there was something. That is what I am looking for. Perhaps what I am looking for was not really used. I do have to wonder what smaller coastal vessles would use. Since you have seen the Dove's firebox - you can see how its contruction would do well in a small trading ship running up and down the Chesapeke. Below is what I have from the report on the vessel Avondster.

The wooden construction was sheathed with metal on the inside for fire protection. Copper was generally used, but there are references to tin and even lead being used as sheathing. Journals from early seventeenth-century shopkeepers indicate that two different thicknesses of copper were used, probably thinner for the walls and thicker for the floors. The same journals account for the sheathing of a galley with old lead(6). On the Avondster, lead sheathing was used, and crumpled lead sheets protrude from the seabed today. The floors and parts of the walls of a galley were laid with bricks.

Avondster 1659 from the Maritime Lanka:

maritime archaeology & history of Sri Lanka

I am hoping to find something other than the large heavy brick or stone firepits used on the large vessels. The earliest mention I have seen for iron stoves was something about the British Navy began looking into the iron stoves around 1728. I am guessing they existed before then but I have not found any documentation on them as of yet.

This is going to be fun,

Cookie -

blackbeardscrew

[Silver]

aye blackdog, have you had a chance to check out the book i recommended to you?

[blackjohn]

The smaller cauldron found on the Henrietta Marie, probably for use by her officers, 1700. Two were found, the larger probably for use of slaves and crew.

I'm actually going to attend a lecture on the Henrietta Marie on Thursday.

[blackjohn]

Better imagine linked off of the following article.

http://www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server?show=ConJm...rint#footnote13

Of course, this still doesn't really answer your question, if I understand your question to be what were the cooking vessels contained in.

[Silver]

blackdog, goolge this <http://photos.somd.com/showphoto.php/photo/2754/cat/81> that be the galley stove you seek?

[Silver]

blackdog, goolge this <http://photos.somd.com/showphoto.php/photo/2754/cat/81> that be the galley stove you seek?

search this site for the photo gallery on the maryland dove.

[William Brand]

Very nice. Thanks you for the link. I'm hoping to have one built for PIP.

[William Brand]

blackdog, goolge this <http://photos.somd.com/showphoto.php/photo/2754/cat/81> that be the galley stove you seek?

Oh very nice. Another good link.

[Silver]

thanks william for the pic import. it's worth a thousand words.

[Black Dog]

Ahoy Mates - looks like a fine stove has been found while I was sleeping. Excellent pic of the Dove's stove. I did not remember the number of brick I see in the picture though. Thought it was smaller - metal lined with brick around the floor in the bottom. Tis a shame I had rum in me hand and not a camera. If anyone knows how I can directly contact the Dove crew or officers - please contact me.

Cookie

[Dutchman]

hey cookie, i'm on it. think we even have the copper for a heat shield I'll check the stack of bricks tomorrow

[Littleneckhalfshell]

related info on ships stove cauldron cover. link is food related (revolution period) but still somewhat applicable since things changed slowly in the navy. But Whydah is mentioned.

http://www.navyandmarine.org/ondeck/1776salthorse.htm

""Because all of the sailors’ food was boiled, ship’s cauldrons, or ‘coppers,’ were necessarily very large. Thomas Dring estimated that the cauldron of the Jersey prison ship, formerly a 64 gun ship-of-the-line, held two to three hogsheads (120 to 180 gallons) of water. That of the Defence, an American privateer brig excavated near the Penobscot River in Maine, held 68 gallons of water. To make them useful in a ship, the cauldrons were square and fashioned from copper. It would sit in a frame supported by the firehearth, which was constructed of brick and filled with sand. These cauldrons could be covered with fitted lids that had holes or indentations in which kettles could sit for boiling water for tea or cocoa. Such a kettle, specially designed to sit in the lid of a ship’s copper, was found in the excavation of the Whydah, the only documented pirate ship-wreck ever discovered.""

[Dutchman]

hey cookie, remind me to show you pics from sultana. chip and QM got a few of her galley for ya when they went exploring last week. sorry folks not smart enough to get them scanned and onboard the internet. i'll pass em off to one of those smart folk later.

[Black Dog]

Ahoy Mates,

The pictures of the Dove's hearth is great. I had heard that large cauldrens were used but had no idea they were as large nor as well made. I keep hoping to find something that would have been used on a smaller vessel than the massive stone and brick hearths I have seen pictures of. Open coastel vessels would have still had some way to cook. I would think small traders running up and down the Chesapeke would be a point to research. The true ocean going ships could deal with the size and weight of the large brick hearth. Something in the 30- 40 foot range would have no room for anything but a smallish hearth - compact and as light of material as possible. I am making guesses on this hoping I can find some documentation for the theory. I know of one piece on the introduction of iron hearths around 1728. The design was very simple and meant for the smaller support vessels of the line to cut the burden of the masonary hearths. I would think there were other earlier iron stoves but have yet to find the documentation.

Thanks to all who have helped in this research - I am sure I will get more answers as time goes.

Cookie

[Black Dog]

Allo mates -

Me thinks we has a working fire barrel - box of sorts. Our friends in Jamestown have educated me on an old design that was oft thrown together on the quick.

1/2 barrel - lined with firebrick from the center of the brick kiln. I am waiting on a delivery from Williamsburg at this moment of real kiln brick. Drop in a few inches of salt or more brick - a layer of sand and you have it. I was going to add horse shoes as handles to move it about and secure it in a blow. I thought useing horse shoes was about right - since you always hear of finding horse shoes in the bottom of many a salt "beef" barrel. I am hoping to have this finished for Blackbeard fest and have it for use to help with the cooking.

hope to see ye there -

Cookie

[Dutchman]

cookie,

i'll be by the boat thursday morning. if you need copper for the barrel, yell and i'll pull it out of the pile. think i still have some rivets too.

[Black Dog]

Aye Dutch -

Copper and rivets would be good. I don't know if the material would be thick enough but we can look it over. We have to be cautious of any coating on the copper too.

I am wanting a simple quick build on this - more like what would have been done. Its the brick, sand, and salt that will make this work.

Now if you see a round wood rack for the barrel - that would be a real find.

Just hope we get the brick from Williamsburg on time.

Cookie

[Dutchman]

not following the wooden rack- as to place it on?

can grab bricks if need be while i grab the copper. the tar will melt off the copper-hey i can add florida barnacles for a price. we'll torch it and clean it before we add it to the barrel.

check out my post on what sailors would eat. some intersting info from the pubsters.