stays and other female costume questions...

[withoutaname]

are stays somewhat hard to make?

I am about 50% done with my first pair of stays. I started them in Jan and i work on them a couple of hours a week when I have time.

They are not hard to make, but they are complicated and time consuming. I used the patten from Reconstructing History and spoke to Kass about things whenever I have problems.

[Kate Souris]

I really want to do historically accurate costumes, I just think they're so interesting

I just have a certain way that i want to do things that may not be accurate? i dunno

it's just my character =p

i dunno if pirate wenches are accurate either, you see so many of them :)

are stays somewhat hard to make?

Like I said earlier, if you want t do historically correct outfits, check out www.reconstructinghistory.com for the pirate era patterns. Michael and I have most of them and they are by far his favorite patterns to use. He's our seamster in this house (there is a union for that apparently) and what he likes is what he gets!

I can't say much for the stays, however. Mine (see above posted photos), Michael hand sewed and refused to let me help on. It was some sort of mission, I'm sure. But he worked on them tediously forever, but as a result I have some gaw-jus stays!

[LadyBarbossa]

Nope. Stays are not all that hard to make at all. Depends upon if you want them fully boned or partially boned.

Ones I have are fully boned with reeding, no trim (so I can replace the reeding whenever I wish) and strapless. Easy to put together, but the more slots for the boning you make, the more time consuming it will be.

As to period accurate... I'm th' same way. I like it looking somewhat period correct but with some slight twists which I would say makes it more historical fiction/PotC style ... something like that.

~Lady B

[michaelsbagley]

So over the last few days, the wife and I have been plotting some new period clothing stuff for her, and getting about starting on them.

Yesterday we drafted the pattern for a new set of stays...

Although she is happy with her RH patterned stays, I kind of pushed the plan of making a custom set based on a self developed pattern. Essentially, I used Stays Pattern Generator, although the web site calls it a corset generator, but the results are stays and NOT a corset in my opinion... But not everyone is as much of a stickler for terms as I am.... Anyways, I used that as a base, and then added elements from the bodice portion of the bodiced gown from Arnold(? might be Waugh, I don't have the books, only photocopies of the key pages of the books from the local library). I did draw on the RH stays pattern a little for the tabs, but in all honesty, the custom generator and the Arnold(?) pattern are the prime resources. The reason we went with the addition of the Arnold(?) pattern elements was for the solid straps, rather than the ribboned straps as suggested in the RH pattern.

Maybe wife will post some pics of the progress, as she will be doing the lion share of the work... I think my doing most of the work on the pattern making is going to be the end of most of my involvement on this project. So far we have drafted a paper pattern, and then we traced the pattern onto stiff card. Taped the stiff card pattern together punched some holes and laced them on and adjusted the fit as needed (and very little adjustment was needed).

Having tried the Corset (which is actually stays) Pattern generator now, I am very impressed at how easy it was to actually draft the pattern using the generator, and more than impressed at ho little adjustment was needed to fit the pattern. Of course I have the advantage of having made 2 or 3 sets of stays already using the RH pattern, so that may have helped with my understanding of the web generator's pattern.

Edited December 29, 2008 by michaelsbagley

[michaelsbagley]

Unfortunately we did not take any photos of Jessica all taped up in the pattern... But here are links to photos of the drafted pattern.

Card Stock trial stays and yes that is hot pink duct tape. The one panel is from a shoe box as it was going to take a hair more card stock than the one sheet of bristol board that we bought for the purpose, so I do recommend buying two poster boards to do this.

One we got the card stock stays to fit correctly, we then traced the pattern onto brown craft paper, and added seam allowances to the parts that will get sewn together, you might be able to see the black lines on the paper pattern where I traced the core pattern and see where I added the little bits for seam allowances.

Paper pattern traced from card stock pattern.

Edited January 1, 2009 by michaelsbagley

[LadyBarbossa]

Absolutely brilliant, Michael. Fine job there.

Aye, the one pattern I have from JP Ryan said it's best to make a card stock mock up first to get a better idea of what needs adjusting, etc.

Keep up th' good work, mate.

~Lady B

[Kate Souris]

To continue on....I cut out the outside fabric and the interlinings today since I have the day off. It's red changeable silk.

[RustyNell]

ohhh It almost looks RUST -- just my color!! thats close to what I'm looking for color wise. nice!

[Kate Souris]

Just the crappy kitchen lighting, Rusty. It's really a nice, deep red. Crimson, almost.

[michaelsbagley]

ohhh It almost looks RUST -- just my color!! thats close to what I'm looking for color wise. nice!

Hey Rusty,

I was surfing to pass a few moments of boredom over my lunch today, and I stumbled across this fabric store...

Renaissance Fabrics

Their prices seem to be not too bad, but since you mentioned rust, and you seem to like the look of the silk, here is a Rust Coloured Silk for you if you should be interested,

[RustyNell]

OH wow thats GORGEOUS!! ....argh what a tease I'd love to make a whole GOWN out of that... 16 bucks a yard, though...I guess thats not bad for silk, stays would be about all I could afford out of that these days. It's GORGEOUS though. Thanks for the link I'll look around!

Nell

Edited January 2, 2009 by RustyNell

[RustyNell]

Just did a bit more shopping around and it looks like thats really a great price after all. WOW had no idea how expensive silk could be. Think I'll make my first set out of wool or linen or a combination of the 2. I REALLY love that silk though it is gorgeous. Please post any other fabric sites I appreciate saving money anywhere I can these days, it means getting to go to more events.

Nell

[michaelsbagley]

Just did a bit more shopping around and it looks like thats really a great price after all. WOW had no idea how expensive silk could be. Think I'll make my first set out of wool or linen or a combination of the 2. I REALLY love that silk though it is gorgeous. Please post any other fabric sites I appreciate saving money anywhere I can these days, it means getting to go to more events.

Nell

I'd recommend staying away from wool for stays... It's generally too stretchy.

However, it only takes a yard to a yard an a half for the outer layer of stays... The inner layers and lining can be done with linen.... So for stays it really wouldn't be that outrageous to buy the silk... Heck I will admit to havign made a set of stays for someone once where the outer layer was linen, but the inner layers were cotton... I can;t honestly remember if the lining was linen or cotton though.

Oh, and you can get silk cheaper.... But usually cheaper silk is "Raw Silk" or "Duipioni Silk" etc,.... The cheaper silks have "slubs" (little nubbly bits in the weave) where as the better silks like taffetas are smooth and generally without slubs.

Edited January 2, 2009 by michaelsbagley

[LadyBarbossa]

Oooo.... fantastic site, Michael. Thank ye.

And thank ye again, for they have the fabric used for tElizabeth's Gold Ceremoney Gold in the first PotC movie. I know some people looking for that still.

And LOVE th' stays, Kate! Absolutely lovely, lass. :) Making them for RF5?

~Lady B

[Kate Souris]

And LOVE th' stays, Kate! Absolutely lovely, lass. :) Making them for RF5?

In theory, yes.

[Cheeky Actress]

Oooo! Kate...does this mean "FANCY DRESS" for the Ball?! Do tell...PLEASE!!!

[Kate Souris]

Oooo! Kate...does this mean "FANCY DRESS" for the Ball?! Do tell...PLEASE!!!

Also, in theory, yes. :)

[Cheeky Actress]

This IS good news....now, do you have an etching you are copying or looking at something to get an idea from?

[RustyNell]

Regarding the wool ...Thanks for the advice on that, so then the black wool Mary Diamond was wearing must have covered whatever was underneath.

I had thought about using a great fabric like that silk for the stays, but then I thought about the difficulty of matching the skirt with something cheaper!! I would hate the colors and textures not to work together...oo oo I just had a thought. I could probably get enough extra for a ruffle on a sleeve or the skirt to bring the fabric in elsewhere without having to make a whole other piece out of it. That would definitely keep the cost down. I just thought about Mary's gown again and how she had that silk line around the base of her mourning skirt. I could do something similar with the silk from the stays, or even use it as a sleeve lining on the mantua so the color shows elsewhere. Ok now I'm thinking LOL.

I kind of worry about ordering fabrics online. I worry the weight and the texture isn't going to be what I expected. Still those prices are good and that rust taffeta is really gorgeous. it just might be worth the risk.

Kate would love to continue to see the photos of your progress.

Edited January 2, 2009 by RustyNell

[Kate Souris]

The cool thing about stays, Rusty, is that when wearing mantuas, etc, you don't necessarily need to worry about the colour of the stays. The use of stomachers was very very chic. That's why I am making mine red and am less than concerned over the fact that they match nothing that I already have.

At PiP....I was bad and didn't wear my mantuas much. Bad Kate.

I've always been one to absolutely need to match everything with everything, and my Mickey is completely opposite. He accidentaly matches.

Oh, and in my opinion...there are lots of lovely earthy colors that can go with rust coloured silk, and I think that it would look lovely with even wool and linen. :)

Yes, I will post photos of the progress.

[michaelsbagley]

Next step finished... Today I drew lines (in pencil) on the interlining to mark the boning channels.

Link to image of this step

I used regular pencil to draw the lines as when the lining gets stitched on, it will not show. Also I find many of the chalk pencils rub off too easily, or the disappearing ink ones bleed. There is a panel missing from the photo, because Kate was busy starting to sew the boning channels as I was taking the photo. Apparently silk thread is a dream to sew with... Not having done this I can't this from first hand experience, but Kate seems to have nothing but good things to say about it.

Also depicted in the above said photo is a piece of the reed boning that will be used on this set of stays. This is the 1/4 inch (7mm) flat oval reed from Reconstructing History.

Edited January 3, 2009 by michaelsbagley

[michaelsbagley]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief, but wife has managed to do the hardest and most tedious part of a set of stay in just one weekend.

Yes, between yesterday and today she has sewn ALL of the boning channels (yes by hand) on her new set of stays. She barely paused long enough for me to snap a few pictures before she set upon the stays again to sew the panels together.

Anyways, here are links to the images of the stays with all the boning channels sewn... I guess she has proven it possible for a possessed person to almost complete a set of stays BY HAND in the course of one lazy weekend around the apartment.... And we managed to take the tree and decorations down today as well!

Photo of stays with boning channels sewn (inside)

Photo of stays with boning channels sewn (outside)

[Kate Souris]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief, but wife has managed to do the hardest and most tedious part of a set of stay in just one weekend.

Yes, between yesterday and today she has sewn ALL of the boning channels (yes by hand) on her new set of stays. She barely paused long enough for me to snap a few pictures before she set upon the stays again to sew the panels together.

Anyways, here are links to the images of the stays with all the boning channels sewn... I guess she has proven it possible for a possessed person to almost complete a set of stays BY HAND in the course of one lazy weekend around the apartment.... And we managed to take the tree and decorations down today as well!

Photo of stays with boning channels sewn (inside)

Photo of stays with boning channels sewn (outside)

Possessed? No. Determined. Cheeky knows how determined.

[Dutchman]

michael, it comes as no suprise that she is almost done. now we all know how PC you wish to be, but......... to make your beloved one set of stays over the course of two years--- tsk, tsk. I may be as dumb as a box o rocks on occasion, but atleast let her have two. why she has been a good wife and im sure would appreciate a new set once in a while ............... grace says hello.

[Capt. Sterling]

Just did a bit more shopping around and it looks like thats really a great price after all. WOW had no idea how expensive silk could be. Think I'll make my first set out of wool or linen or a combination of the 2. I REALLY love that silk though it is gorgeous. Please post any other fabric sites I appreciate saving money anywhere I can these days, it means getting to go to more events.

Nell

I'd recommend staying away from wool for stays... It's generally too stretchy.

Just curious though, does not Kass recommend wool stays first ?