JoshuaRed Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I finally got time to settle in and watch the dvd last night with the surround sound cranked up...what a JOY!!!!! However I noticed something that I never thought of in the theater. Early on, Norrington is captain of the ship that brings Swann and his daughter to Jamaica. Yet he also seems to order the marines around like he is officially in charge of them as well. Wouldn't a detachment of marines on board a ship have their own superior officer who in turn reported to the ship captain? He even orders them around when Jack rescues Elizabeth from drowning, and commands the fort when Barbossa attacks...wouldn't these matters have been left to a military commander, not a naval officer? For when Jack and Will commandeer the Interceptor, Norrington leads his men at sea too. Seems Norrington is a control freak bent on controlling every military aspect of Port Royal! After all it "throws into sharp relief that which he has not yet attained." I'm not nitpicking, I understand that combining all military command on land and sea is under Norrington is for brevity's sake and that the historical accuracy is best left to Master & Commander. It just struck me for the first time last night that this guy has some serious control issues! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Doyle Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Early on, Norrington is captain of the ship that brings Swann and his daughter to Jamaica. Yet he also seems to order the marines around like he is officially in charge of them as well. Wouldn't a detachment of marines on board a ship have their own superior officer who in turn reported to the ship captain? Actually, in the beginning of the film, Norrington is _not_ the captain of the ship that brings Swann and 'Liz'beth to Jamaica. Listen to what he says when they find the burning ship after taking in Will -- "Rouse the Captain immediately! Heave to and take in sail. Launch the boats." So he's not the captain, but the lieutenant of the Navy on board. He even orders them around when Jack rescues Elizabeth from drowning, and commands the fort when Barbossa attacks...wouldn't these matters have been left to a military commander, not a naval officer? For when Jack and Will commandeer the Interceptor, Norrington leads his men at sea too. Yah -- despite being a naval officer, it seems he's begun his career as a military man, after all, so at this point if he's serving as a one-in-all type of guy, I'll be willing to accept it. I am now "Captain Charlotte Savvy." Sorry for any confusion -- I'll only be making this user-name change this once! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Anyone else notice that his wig is brown at the start of the movie but later it's white, as is everyone elses'. Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Aye, I did notice that. I guess his stature is increasing. Isn't that wot lordly men do? Powder their wigs? "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Yeah that's what I had thought at first however all of the soldiers have white wigs too. Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Mmmmmm. Well, sometimes fashions change, or it could simply be a mistake. That's interesting. I've ordered some osprey books about that era, but they won't be here for a week yet. I'm sure there's someone out there who knows the right answer, though. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 ITs because he got a promotion. That is what the sword (Will made) was all about, a gift for his promotion to Captain. Sir Nigel - aka "Sir Freelancealot"; aka "Ace of Cads"; aka "JACKPOT!!" (cha-CHING!) "Mojitos BAD!...Lesbians with free rum GOOD!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhand Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 If Norrington was indeed a Royal Navy Leftenant at the beggining of the film, his career was indeed on a meteoric rise! Going from Leftenant to Commadore in only 8 years....I think someone was "polishing" someones sword alright!! Redhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 From Wikipedia: Use of the term "commodore" in the Royal Navy dates to the mid-17th century: it was first used in the time of William III. There was a need for officers to command squadrons, but it was not deemed desirable to create new admirals. Captains assigned squadron command were given this title, but it was not an actual rank. The officer so designated kept his place on the list of captains. In 1748 it was established that captains serving as commodores were equal to brigadier generals. The Royal Navy commodore eventually became split into two classes. Those of the first class had a captain under them to command their ship. Those of the second class commanded their own ship as well as the squadron. In 1783, commodores of the first class were allowed to wear the uniform of a rear admiral, a distinction which continued until the two classes of commodore were consolidated in 1958. In 1996 the rank of commodore was made a substantive rank in the Royal Navy: previously it had been merely a temporary rank, and commodores used to revert to the rank of captain at the end of their posting. Commodores first class, while wearing the sleeve stripes of a rear admiral, used to have distinctive gold epaulettes and shoulder boards with a crown, two stars and anchor. They flew a swallow-tailed pennant with the St George's cross. Commodores second class (and all present-day commodores) wear a single broad ring of sleeve lace and wear blue instead of gold shoulder boards in tropical dress. Their pennant is differenced from the first class commodore's by a single red ball in the upper hoist. The rank of commodore is not a flag rank in the Royal Navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted December 18, 2003 Author Share Posted December 18, 2003 Yeah, it would be cool to see Norrington's backstory - to see just what his amazing exploits were during those 8 years that caused his scorching rise from leftenant to Commodore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 If you look at the first paragraph of the passage I quoted, you'll see that it would be quite possible (at least in theory) for a lieutenant to gain the title Commodore directly upon being posted Captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Doyle Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 If you look at the first paragraph of the passage I quoted, you'll see that it would be quite possible (at least in theory) for a lieutenant to gain the title Commodore directly upon being posted Captain. Deacon Frye, thanks muchly for the info -- glad to see a little historical accuracy was in "Pirates of the Caribbean" after all! :) I am now "Captain Charlotte Savvy." Sorry for any confusion -- I'll only be making this user-name change this once! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Emerald Shaunassey Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Joshua, your line of thought got me to thinking ... at the start of the movie, Leftenant Norrington made his speech about bringing down pirates where ever they are ... makes me wonder if his promotion 8 years later has alot to do with his anti-pirate campaign. And yes, I had noticed that his hair was brown when he was serving at a Leftenant and white (assumed powdered) by the time he was made Commodor. I will have to do some checking about to see the why's of that when the soliders (marines?) in British Red also have white/powdered hair. Hmm.. so many points to ponder .. where to be begin? Cap'n Emerald Captain Emerald Shaunassey O' The Salty Kiss www.TheLadiesoftheSaltyKiss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 At the beginning... Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Broadside" Long Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Joshua, your line of thought got me to thinking ... at the start of the movie, Leftenant Norrington made his speech about bringing down pirates where ever they are ... makes me wonder if his promotion 8 years later has alot to do with his anti-pirate campaign. Yeah, if you remember when Cap'n Jack and Elizabeth are on the desert island drinking rum, Jack mentions to Elizabeth that it appears that the rum-runners are out of business probably "thanks to your friend Norrington" or something to that effect. Broadside Every normal person must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats! - Lucanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Yes, I definitely think Norrington spent those 8 years ridding the Caribbean of many a nefarious character. Sparrow alludes to this yet again when he's enticing Barbossa about how they could team up to become the "Last real pirate threat in the Caribbean". This statement, coupled with the decidedly mid 1700s costumes, sets & ships also makes me think that the story is indeed set much later in the 18th century than our beloved "Golden Age"....at time when all the well known pirates were long dead...perhaps even 1750-60? By the way....though I do know little about the history of smuggling, I am reasonably sure that rum was never illegal or contraband in those times....so just what were rum runners doing in the movie? It's much more a 20th century, Prohibition phenomena. Unless they were just smugglers who moved rum en masse for a nice profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Deacon Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Alcohol was still taxed. So they were running illegal rum. At this time everything was taxed. -------------- "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty well preserved piece without an even a kiss your hand, but to skid across the line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, smelling of powder, shouting ARRRG!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Ah yes! How foolish of me! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Isn't Rum Runner's a bar in Key West? Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Morgan Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Just a little background to help any and all who care... those guys in red were definately Royal Marines (Norrington refers to them as such in the scene where they are rescuing Cap'n Jack from the gallows), and Marines then and now are tasked with security aboard ships and manning the guns and acting as infantry at forward naval installations. I am a US Marine (our traditions and even our famous dress blues [there's some nautical clothes the ladies appreciate!] are based on those of the Royal Marines), and the Marines would have been commanded by their own Captain (a rank equivilant to a naval Lieutenant), who would receive orders ONLY from his ship's Captain... but obviously the whole chain of command thing would have been a little tedious on screen... but anyway, there you have it! Semper Fidelis, Fair Winds, and Following Seas! Capt. Morgan Touche' Ship's Marksman & Crab Fiend Pyrates of the Coast "All the skill in the world goes out the window if an angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket." "Florida points like a guiding thumb, To the southern isles of rumba and rum, To the mystery cities and haunted seas, Of the Spanish Main and the Caribbees..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Emerald Shaunassey Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Thanks for the information Cap'n Morgan, actually kinda interesting. Cap'n Emerald Captain Emerald Shaunassey O' The Salty Kiss www.TheLadiesoftheSaltyKiss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Morgan Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Daarrrrr! Ye be welcome! Touche' Ship's Marksman & Crab Fiend Pyrates of the Coast "All the skill in the world goes out the window if an angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket." "Florida points like a guiding thumb, To the southern isles of rumba and rum, To the mystery cities and haunted seas, Of the Spanish Main and the Caribbees..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endkaos Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I thought the brown wig to white wig was an attempt to show aging on the parts of Norrington and Governor Swan (who's wig color also changed). Just my two dubloons worth. ~Tori Like any unmanned ship, a novice sailor will eventually steer into the wind and then in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I think the Governor's wig changed because on the trip out he was going to become a governor however at the time of the trip he was not so would wear a brown wig at the time. Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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