Period Shanties

[LadyBarbossa]

Been doing a little reading here and there when I can. And one book was having a blurb in it about the sea shanties. A variety of them were used depending upon the task at had aboard ship that kept the sailors in sync and in rhythm.

Recommendations on what shanties out there are good period style chant to keep the deck hands and the rigging rats unified in their tasks and work?

~Lady B

[Coastie04]

Well, Haul on the Bowline was always a good one to tighten the bowlines (lines that helped give the sail better shape). Santiana is a good capstain shanty, though I've hauled up tops'ls with it as well. Spanish Ladies is another good capstain shanty, though it's also one of my favorites, so I use it as a song to pass the time as well. Some songs sound good at different tempos, so they can be used for multiple activities. Generally, the slower ones are good for capstains (hauling up the anchor, hauling heavy spars and masts up to rig the boat, etc.). Some medium "cadence-paced" shanties are good for hauling lines, such as haliards. It's really a matter of finding the right pace for whatever work has to be done. If it's fairly windy, a slower song might be needed to raise a sail than on a calm day. Hauling up the anchor would usually be a long process, so many songs would be needed. Generally, faster at first taking up the slack of the cable, then a some short shanties to break the anchor free (create surges of power from the crew), then probably a long, slow shanty with the weight of the anchor being hauled up.

I'd recommend Stan Hugil's "Shanties from the Seven Seas" for as large a selection of sea shanties as you'd wish. Many of them are later than the GAoP, thought the greats (Spanish Ladies, Golden Vanity, etc.) have lasted through hundreds of years. However, they're traditional working songs from the days of sail.

Coastie

[Misson]

FWIW, I thought this was sort of interesting. It's the only reference I've found to music so far.

"[1697] And about ten days after our arrival, having delivered the passengers and moneys we had on board on freight, which was about the value of sixty thousand dollars, I having leave of the President [of the East India Company] to come up to Surat, and going up thither, I took up our music, being a 'vioallin' and a 'hoboy' to cheer up the factory after their great troubles, and to see if they could teach our 'musichionors' to play 'The Worst is Past'. (Barlow's Journal, Edward Barlow, p. 487-8)

[Capt Thighbiter]

Is that what I am, after all these years?? A musichionor? Cool !

That must be because there's no honor amongst musichionors.

[Misson]

The spelling in period books seems to be almost entirely phonetic. I have seen the same word spelled two different ways in the same book within a few pages. Barlow's editor, who purchased his journal from the family in the 1930s, has updated many of the words in the published book. However, he has also left a bunch of the actual spellings of certain words in the body of the main text with quotes around them - at least that seems to be what he's done. There are several illustrations reprinted in the book with what appear to be Barlow's original text explaining them. For example - "Thus doth Cappe Degullas [Agulhas] shew itself Bering from you North eight Leagues, Liying in South Lattitude thertey five Degreis." The actual text of the book does not read like this, nor does it contain the slightly random capitalization. So I presume editor Basil Lubbock has updated the text, except the stuff with quotes around it as noted above.

So I'm sure 'musichionor' is Barlow's attempt to spell musicianer - which is not actually a word, but that is another common element in the period books. In fact, I have just returned to Dampier's book (which I left to read Barlow as that was a library book with a due date) and I notice that Dampier's attempts at spelling are much better than Barlow's. This sort of makes sense since Dampier seems to have been better educated (Dampier took Latin among other things. I doubt Barlow made it completely through school).

Blah, blah, blah, I'm way OT for the Shanties forum. I'd definitely consider calling myself a musicianer if I were you.

[Capt. Sterling]

Oi Mission any copy of the religious pamplets Rogers was going to distribute to the pirates?

[Calico Jack]

Depending upon when in the GAoP you are representing, there are a couple of tunes that might do well for entertainment if not for work. Well, actually, there are lots, but there are a couple that I know off-hand.

In 1706, George Farquhar produced the play "The Recruiting Officer," which was incredibly popular [as a Restoration Comedy] and the popularity remained straight through at least until the 19th century's close. One tune from that play was picked up and ran as a "popular" musical choice for a full century. A variation was included in John Gay's "The Beggar's Opera" in 1728, and most recently, John Tams wrote a variation for use in the Sharpe's series ['though it seems various variations of the song were sung during the Napoleonic Wars, the one heard in Sharpe's is in fact wholly modern, with many elements taken from earlier versions].

Anyhow.

The version from "The Recruiting Officer" was enough of a "pop tune" in 1706 and the years following, that it would well suit sailors and soldiers and merchants from the late GAoP.

A number of broadsheet ballads were released on the death of William Kidd in 1701 [some several sold -at- the hanging]. Many of these are still accessible as well, and sing quite well. One - to the same tune as Sam Hall - properly Jack Hall - dates to 1701 or 1707 [Kidd hanged in 1701, Hall in 1707], and many many variations of it have arisen in the years since.

Both of these [well, all three, including Jack Hall] are near the middle of the GAoP period, so may prove useful. None are, of course, chanties. Good for music, not good for wearing lines or working capstan.

Problem is that most surviving sea chanties seem to date from the 19th century [and more rarely the 18th], at least in English.

[Capt Thighbiter]

WHat is frustrating in trying to do period broadsheet music, is that often there are just words. If your lucky, it will say sung to the tune of "XXXXXXXXX". If your very lucky, the tune refered to is one that has been preserved and is learnable from some source. Often, they are not.

In the period, as now, some songs were just so popular that the melody was known by everyone, so there was no need ( or expense) to include the sheet music for the melody. Think "St Peppers Lonley Hearts CLub Band". EVERYONE knows that melody. So if i write a parody or new words for it, I need only publish the words.

I have seen in some cases that a modern bard will use broadsheet words and fit them to a much more modern melody, that seems to fit the phrasing of the words.

But period shanties? I've never run across a shantey that was preserved from the period, in any kind of authoritative sense.

Funny, tho, fiddle tunes have been. Devils Dream ( or Haste Amoungst the Yearlings) as been preserved and most fiddle players know at least one version if not many of this tune. I found a historical reference to it, saying that the tune was at the height of its popularity in the early 1700's!. Still gets played today, and we do one hell-fire hot version of it!

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

I have seen in some cases that a modern bard will use broadsheet words and fit them to a much more modern melody, that seems to fit the phrasing of the words.

What (if any) be the legal ramifications fer doin' so?

[CapnJake]

I've been doing a lot of research on this topic for an article for one of the two extant pirate magazines.

Strictly speaking there are NO pirate sea shanties. To be a stickler for the history, there are maritime songs still around that date from as far back as Elizabethan times, but they're not "shanties," per se. The sea shanty form dates after 1840 and ends about 1930. (Richard Henry Dana wrote about maritime work songs in Two Years Before the Mast but never referred to them as shanties.) The golden age of piracy is generally considered to have run from about 1650 through 1720; there is no overlap between the two sets of dates.

But certainly there were still pirates between 1840 and 1930 and as all pirates were sailors they would have sung shanties themselves during that time. Interestingly, since we've seen that sailors tunes are often taken from the shore and given a maritime treatment, the musicians aboard Teach's ship were as like to be playing rustic versions of Pacabel and Scarletti tunes as anything else!

[CapnJake]

I have seen in some cases that a modern bard will use broadsheet words and fit them to a much more modern melody, that seems to fit the phrasing of the words.

What (if any) be the legal ramifications fer doin' so?

The legal ramifications vary. The lines you quote in your sig are by John Connelly and he briskly pursues fellow musicians for his royalties; I don't know that he would take legal action to recover his due. If you crib a tune from the public domain there are no worries. If you borrow from Elton John his label would certainly slap a "cease and desist" order on you if you recorded the piece. If you were just performing it, chances are likely you wouldn't get caught, but you would theoretically owe your .09¢ per performance to RIAA. (Not that RIAA has every paid US anything for any of our music played on various broadcast and internet radio stations . . .)

[Capt Thighbiter]

Jake, I am not sure but if you take someones tune ( like an Elton John song - though why someone would use his stuff....) and parody it, you are not infringing on copyright, since its a parody. Kinda like Wierd Al does. Again, Im not sure. Let 'em chase me for the 9 pence.

[Bilgewater Browne]

Being a school teacher, I'm pretty well acquainted with fair-use rules. Parody is definitely protected by fair use, especially if you credit the writer of the original song. However, if you end up making lots of money off of it, it's professional courtesy to give the writer a cut. If a song is brand new, you can use it for educational purposes for a short period of time-- Reason being that you would not be able to obtain rights in time for the lesson.

[Desert Dragoon]

I posted this in another topic but I am looking for sheet music for period folksongs. I did find some real basic stuff for Drunken Sailor.. but that's about it.

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

The lines you quote in your sig are by John Connelly and he briskly pursues fellow musicians for his royalties; I don't know that he would take legal action to recover his due. If you crib a tune from the public domain there are no worries.

Murky waters copywrite lawrs be. I's seen many a version 'o Fiddlers Green as writted by JC, yet the basic framework can be found a decade before in a '59 Burl Ives tune-

Wrap Me Up In My Tarpaulin Jacket

and Say A Poor Buffer Lies Low;

and Six Stalwart Lancers Shall Carry Me

carry Me With Steps Solemn, Mournful And Slow.

I's seen other works copied word fer word with nary a hint of acknowledgment fer an earlier version or the original PD source an carryin' a big cw warnin' as well

Tweeks yer gizzard it does!

[Calico Jack]

Well, the dating of Sea Chanties as a term might hold one thing, and the dating of what are defined as sea chanties quite another. True, written records using the term come from well after the GAoP, but the term was coined to give a common terminology for work songs aboard ship. Did work chants aboard ship exist before the publication of Two Years Before the Mast? Felix Fabri, a Dominican friar, sailed from Germany to Palestine aboard a Venetian galley and he described, "mariners who sing when work is going on -- -- [There is] a concert between one who sings out orders and the laborers who sing in response" in 1493, at least according to research by Howard Hornstein for his book Favorite Sea Songs of the Ancient Mariners Chanteymen, ASIN: B000B73Y9Q. Admittedly, the book by Fabri that he is citing was published in '93, but the events supposedly took place by '83. Still, befoe the end of the GAoP, at any rate [grins].

Edited October 11, 2008 by Calico Jack

[CapnJake]

Felix Fabri, a Dominican friar, sailed from Germany to Palestine aboard a Venetian galley and he described, "mariners who sing when work is going on --

I have no doubt there were sea shanties before they were labeled as such. The problem for my research is that I can't find documentation of ANY during the GaoP. I have examples of all kinds of GaoP broadsides singing about sailors and some about pirates, but no tunes and no direct evidence they were sung on board ships. Interestingly, there are about four examples of songs with origines OLDER than the GaoP (Amsterdam Maid, Haul on the Bowline, Whiskey Johnny and Spanish Ladies). Most of the songs we know today as sea shanties are VERY modern (1840-1910-ish), and there is the jarring anachronism for those history sticklers.

The problem with songs in the oral traditions is that lots of stuff just gets LOST before it is recorded in some fashion. Frustrating! John Kanaka is a song greatly influenced by the Hawaiian/Polynesian sailors, but is said to be the last of MANY, none of the rest remembered or written down. Horrible loss!

[Crows Nest Vintage]

David Jeremiah sings a beautiful renditon of Forty Fathoms Deep

#2 on Album ultimate Swashbucklers 10 songs

this cd was in a package with Pirates of the Carribean DVD

Edited November 3, 2008 by Crows Nest Vintage

[Crows Nest Vintage]

This seemd to be a good source for Sea Shanties

http://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/the-pirate-song.htm

Edited November 3, 2008 by Crows Nest Vintage

[Crows Nest Vintage]

Sorry for repeat post,

I could not quite get the info from itunes on the music websites

The brothers four album with Eddystone light is shown at this link

http://www.google.com/musicl?lid=5lIuc_bzw...aid=aJu-LluWhmG

Edited November 3, 2008 by Crows Nest Vintage

[Crows Nest Vintage]

The brothers Four

The keeper of the Eddystone light

As A child I heard this song and it is near and dear to my heart and allways will be

Eddystone Light Lyrics

Yo ho, Here's a tale

That's fair and dear to the hearts of those that sail

'Bout a lighthouse keeper and his bare faced wife

Who joined together for a different life

Yo ho, The winds and water tell the tale

My father was the keeper of the Eddystone light

He married a mermaid one fine night

From this union there came three

A porpoise and a porgy and the other one me!

Yo ho ho, the wind blows free,

Oh, for the life on the rolling sea!

Late one night, I was a-trimming of the glim

While singing a verse from the evening hymn

A voice on the starboard shouted "Ahoy!"

And there was my mother, a-sitting on a buoy.

Yo ho ho, the wind blows free,

Oh, for the life on the rolling sea!

"Tell me what has become of my children three?"

My mother she did asked of me.

One was exhibited as a talking fish

The other was served on a chafing dish.

Yo ho ho, the wind blows free,

Oh, for the life on the rolling sea!

Then the phosphorous flashed in her seaweed hair.

I looked again, and me mother wasn't there

A voice came echoing out from the night

"To Hell with the keeper of the Eddystone Light!"

Yo ho ho, the wind blows free,

Oh, for the life on the rolling sea!

Yo ho, Yo ho

Yo ho, Yo ho, Yo ho...

Edited November 3, 2008 by Crows Nest Vintage

[RedJessi]

Most of the music I know predates the GAoF. I was trained in madrigals (around the mid 1500's) and then more recent chamber music (1800's), most of which were 4 to 9 part harmonies. That aside, though I am not a music scholar by any stretch of the imagination, I would think that whatever music was popular at the time would be just as likely to be sung on a ship, regardless of "shanty" status.

[Captain Tito]

I would think that whatever music was popular at the time would be just as likely to be sung on a ship, regardless of "shanty" status.

Aye, the way I be taught, that be true. Many songs were tried, and if they got the men to do the job, they were kept in the ship's repertoire of shanties.

Lass, those periods and styles o'vocal music be my absolute favorites. I love Madrigals and other polyphonic styles of the 1500s. I enjoy some vocal styles of earlier times too.

[RedJessi]

Welcome Sweet Pleasure, a madrigal written in 1598by Thomas Weelkes remains one of my favorites!

[blackjohn]

I'm kind of fond of...

My lady and her maid

Upon a merry pin

They made a match at farting

Who should the wager win?

Joan lights three candles then

and sets them bolt upright

with the first fart she blew them out

with the next she gave them light.

In comes my lady then

with all her might and main

and blew them out and in and out and in and out again.

Pirates... I bet they liked potty humor.