Got me new cutlass!

[John Maddox Roberts]

Just got me new cutlass from Loyalist Arms & Repairs of Canada and I can recommend her without reservation. She's the "17th/18th Century Dutch Cutlass," and while I don't know the true provenance I think she's a fine munition grade generic cutlass for anytime from 1650-1860s.

The hilt is a graceful half-basket connected to the pommel-cap. The grip seems to be hardwood. Gaurd and grip are covered with a heavy coat of dull-black paint, an excellent idea for sea service. A magnet test proves that the guard and pommel are steel. Blade is about 26" and slightly curved, with a broad fuller 3/4s its length with a narrow fuller along the top of the broad one. The tip is spear-pointed and the blade has an excellent polish with no tool marks I can see. I estimate it at about 2.5 pounds, hefty for a short sword but this is designed as a skull-splitter, not an instrument for elegant swordplay.

Scabbard is made of very heavy leather sewn down the back with brass chape and throat with a stout button for a carrying frog.

Best of all is the price, $78.99 US. An astounding price for such quality. In fact, a custom maker would charge more for the scabbard alone. For reenactment purposes, it comes unedged. I'll sharpen mine, but as is it's safe for demonstrations among the civilians and young 'uns, though you might want to round the point a bit.

The basket is welded to the knucklebow and the weld is visible on the inside, so I may glue a liner in there to hide it.

All in all I couldn't be more pleased and plan to order more stuff from them.

[Scupper]

Sounds nice. How bout posting a pic or a link?

Scupper

[the Royaliste]

Same link as the 'blunderbuss' post, Mate!

[capnwilliam]

Aye, John; sounds like ye made a great purchase!

But why would ye want to sharpen it? I do have an SCA friend who's a heavy weapons fighter (i.e., rattan stick swords) but hates guns, so wants to get a sharpened sword for home protection. But generally speaking, we're not in a swords-for-self-defense era. Seems like sharpening the blade would just make it unwantedly dangerous for demonstration purposes.

Capt. William

[El Pirata]

Pics?

[the Royaliste]

My curiousity also!!..Few swords were ever sharp in the days of sidearms, excluding dragoons and horsmen, and mebbee an errant field officer, most never on Naval weapons.....On ship, the sharpened edge will encourage rust quicker than a chicken on a june-bug!..A model 1911 is hard to beat for home defense, 'cept mebbee by a Glock, but they are to 'light', in my estimation..Cutlass' were never a sharp instrument....Hollywood misconceptions, methinks...

:angry:

[Hawkyns]

But generally speaking, we're not in a swords-for-self-defense era. Seems like sharpening the blade would just make it unwantedly dangerous for demonstration purposes.

Speak f y'self mate, I keep a short hanger near the head of the bed, and a cutlass over the door frame. In fact, thinkin' on it, I have blade or staff weapons in every room. Hmmmmm......

Seriously, I have three levels of weapons that I use, depending on the muster. My Del Tin rapiers are for competition, blunted, tipped, and used with masks. I have a couple of Armour Class blunts, full size and weight blades with rounded edges and tips, that I can use for competition or re-enactment when masks would be out of place. And I have my sharps, regular blades with sharp edges and points. These I use for living history, so I don't have to deal with the 'How can you kill anybody with a blunt sword?' questions. These are also the blades that I carry as a my regular carry pieces. Been in enough dodgy areas that I've been glad to have a useable live steel weapon with me.

So if it will sharpen up nicely, go ahead.

Hawkyns

:angry:

[Bilgemunky]

Swords as home defense? Happened to a neighbor of mine just a couple of months ago. He was expecting a friend to drop by, so like a fool he left the front door unlocked for 'em. A few minutes later, while upstairs, he hears the door open, but after a minute or so starts to wonder why his buddy hasn't come upstairs or yelled for him. He grabs a sword from his wall (a one handed viking-looking thing) and heads downstairs. He sees some dreadlocked dude he doesn't recognize standing in his hallway and asks him what he's doing there.

"I'm lookin' for Jim," he says.

"No Jim here. Please leave."

"I know Jim lives here" and the dude starts to walk to my neighbor who then unsheathes his sword. The intruders eyes grew to the size of dinner plates, and then he turned tail and fled :angry:

I've got me cutlass in the bedroom, but I've also got me 9mm sig. Hell, if it's good enough for Navy seals... :angry:

[Hawkyns]

My curiousity also!!..Few swords were ever sharp in the days of sidearms, excluding dragoons and horsmen, and mebbee an errant field officer, most never on Naval weapons.....

Haven't handled enough original cutlasses to say. Other blades, though, were pretty sharp. Rapiers, cut-and-thrust blades, hangars and similar blades were plenty sharp. Not razor sharp, that's the wrong way to sharpen a sword, but enough to cut yourself running your thumb along.

I suppose there's a difference between a swordsman and a grunt or deckhand, too. Someone who isn't trained and gets a blade stuck in their hand has a different attitude from a trained swordsman. That brings up the difference between pirate and sailor. Sailors fought when needed and avoided it when possible. The sword was the pirate's tool and the articles I've seen stipulate punishment for not taking appropriate care of weapons. Wouldn't that mean sharp, too?

Either way, the idea of an unsharpened blade, other than a purpose made competition or stage blade, just makes me twitch. Someday, when I have time, money, and access, I'd like to get a properly made, thousand fold katana blade cut down and mounted to a hangar or cutlass hilt. The curve is right and that would be truly sharp.

Hawkyns

[capnwilliam]

Well, sure, shipmates, swords can send a swab ta Davy Jones as swift and certain today as in the days of yore. Your friend showed quick thinking and resolution, Bilgemunky, and has my respect.

But, as was pointed out, swords are no longer the weapon of choice. People can argue interminably about make, model, caliber, action type, ammo type, etc., but note that when they're talking weapon of choice for protection, they're talking firearms. That doesn't mean you can't defend yourself with whatever is in reach, when the occasion arises. (The one time in my life I needed a gun, I didn't have it. I used a plastic trash can lid against my attackers: two huge white German Shepherds! Aye, as the savvy Quaker in Moby Dick says, "taught me more about me own mortality than any church-art sermon!" Never did cause me to start carryin' around a trash can lid for protection, though. )

I do keep a wooden nightstick in my bedroom as a back-up to my modern "smoke wagon" (you'll catch the allusion if you're on the SCA-Nautical list!)

Having your show blade sharpened would necessitate keeping in the scabbard around tourist types. Also, if you DID have to use it for self defense, even an unsharpened sword in the hands of a resolute man could be used to do the job.

Royaliste, I'd heard that story before about naval blades not being sharpened. Does that mean that they were just not kept really sharp, or that no edge was ever put on them in the first place?

Capt. William

[the Royaliste]

I have no reenactment, or 'replica' swords, all of mine are period, antique, and generally valuable. That said, twelve rest at each end of my bunk, and yes, I have them stratigically located on purpose. All of my Naval edged weapons, regardless of country, have only a point, no sharp edges. There was no gain in slicicng off arms, only breaking things, or as a last resort, stabbing. All edges are factory-contract rounded off, that isn't to say one wouldn't take off a limb, they just weren't made for that. Naval cutlass combat training weasn't ever to slice, but wound, disable, and take hostage...Those I have that are sharpened, most all not naval, are hell to maintain aboard my ship, the sharpened edges rust rapidly. An exception to the rule is a French model Naval artillery officer's sword that I own that is sharp on both edges, primarily to clear rigging, as this man would not be in a boarding party, therefore he would not have a boarding axe nearby, traditionally...Also, what little combat you do encounter with sharpened blades from the period, you stand a good chance of breaking said blade on impact.

[capnwilliam]

Your post is most interesting, Royaliste; most interesting indeed.

Hawkyns, what say ye here?

Capt. William

[the Royaliste]

And as a post-script, all nations used leather, not steel, scabbards shipboard, and, they wouldnt stand up too well to a sharpened edge entering and exiting...There are a few rare officer's examples out there in brass, but they are one in ten thousand..Check the 'Old Swords' forum for any exceptions, you'll surf forever beforte you have any luck. Sea rules were rather unwaivering for a few centuries, fairly immune to the 'fashions' of the lubbers and politico's.

One can make all of the assumptions one cares for, but the blades tell their own stories, every one of them!

[Black Deacon]

Just got me new cutlass from Loyalist Arms & Repairs of Canada and I can recommend her without reservation. For reenactment purposes, it comes unedged. I'll sharpen mine, but as is it's safe for demonstrations among the civilians and young 'uns, though you might want to round the point a bit.

Congrats. I've been tauting their praises since I came to this board. One thing to consider, If you are ever going to knock blades and swing steel with someone don't sharpen it. You will turn the blade from smooth into a saw blade very quickly. Yes originals were sharp. Had to cut through, skin, bone, rope, wood. I've handled and molded originals over the years. But if you are using it for demo purposes or "simulated" combat. Don't sharpen that edge.

[John Maddox Roberts]

I likes me blades sharp. There's few things as vexing as sawing away on some Spaniard's throat without result.

If I get into serious reenacting I'll get a dull one, but I just don't feel right with a dull blade.

Me old mate Hank Reinhardt has done a good deal of experimentation with blades both sharp, semi-sharp and dull on pig quarters sometimes bare, covered with padding or with padding and mail. It's amazing how much tissue damage can be done with a dull blade that's swung hard enough. Even under padded mail it can actually burst apart wthout the mail being penetrated.

Anyways, I likes 'em sharp. If a good pirate's blade gets too notched, he just steals another one. It's not like he plans to pass any family heirlooms on to his heirs.

[Matty Bottles]

This is an interesting thread...it makes sense to me, clumsy as I am, not to have a sword particularly sharp. I'd hate to fall any sort of distance with one on my belt. Of course, I'd hate to fall any sort of distance with a loaded pistol, too, so that isn't much of an argument.

Hawkyns, this might interest you. I had a middling, middling-poor katana that I managed to break right above the hilt. My friend has gotten interested in making sword hilts (he just got himself a welding rig) and has expressed an interest in rapier hilts, so I passed along this broken blade (just about 28 inches long) to him to see what he could do. I'll let you know how it turns out. I figure that, at the very least, it would come out as an interesting, one-of-a-kind sword, even if it had no practical purpose.

[capnwilliam]

I agree, Bloody Jack, this be one of the most interesting threads on this list to date! Rather a specialized discussion; but I'm learning to appreciate in-depth discussions.

As for falling with a sharpened sword: that argument doesn't convinc me. If the blade is in a proper scabbard, you're safe. If it isn't...why not?

I also am interested in learning about whatever your katana becomes. Keep us posted!

Capt. William

[John Maddox Roberts]

As mate Hawkyns points out, there are now some fine theatrical blades made that are perfect for sword-against-sword demonstrations, without notching up a good blade. I would never use my new one for such a purpose. It's a real weapon, sharpened or unsharpened, and a near miss even in a rehearsed bout could result in a fractured wrist or much worse.

On the home defense front, my first choice is my 12 guage, my second is my .45, and my third is my wee little .357 (no kidding, it's no bigger than a snub-nosed .38). The trick is: are these things handy when the bad guys come in through the window? Where I'm sitting right now, none of my firearms are instantly available, but my Roman gladius (I write novels set in ancient Rome) is within arm's reach. It's 19" long and razor-edged and as wide as your hand. Sticking a man with it would be like putting a shovel through him, so, in dire necessity, that's what I'd go for. The cleanup afterward would be a bitch, though. The cutlass wouldn't be a bad choice, either.

[the Royaliste]

"Hmm, I write Pirate novels, but that aside, alla my pistols, new or 'old' are within arms reach..NRA for ovr 40 years, no good where you can't reach 'em , mate!..might as well collect china figurines!!!.." :)

And besides, I live in California, so I'll not be tellin' ye wot's all within reach!..Back to the swivel gun, and the sword topic..

[the Royaliste]

Hmm, got meself a wonderin' now...Is six hands on the deck guns at the same time, wif a linstock each...zat make me ship an 'automatic weapon'???

[Deacon Frye]

I can't speak specifically to naval swords and cutlasses, but nineteenth and early twentieth century military swords were issued unsharpened, and left that way during peacetime.

If hostilities developed, however, they were indeed sharpened on the "eve of battle", sometimes literally. In many cases, they were intentionally blunted, per regulation, with the cessation of hostilities.

Naval officer's sword rarely saw battle after the Napoleonic era, and even then they usually had fighting swords for use and dress swords for wear. There would be no need to sharpen the latter.

I would expect to find most naval swords of the era unsharpened, unless they had been used in battle.

As far as sharpening a replica, and perhaps doing a bit of cutting, I'm all in favor of it as long as the replica is structurally sound, safe practice is followed, and the sword is kept away from innocents and fools.

[capnwilliam]

Mate John, ye are a man after me own black heart!

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

Royaliste, the Deacon raises a good point here: do you reckon that yer old blades were never sharpened because they were deemed unlikely to have been actually used in battle, and /or because they were never sharpened on the eve thereof?

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

By the way: where'd ye get the gladius from, John?

Capt. William

[the Royaliste]

Mine were all used in battle. I'll not argue facts, nor suppositions. All of mine are authenticated, edge-nicked heavily, and rack-numbered..I have the provenance on several, including battle and service records.

I generally stay out of discussions I don't have factual knowledge of...I just sold one of my officer's saber's for thousands on e-bay.

An addendum to my weapons collections. I collect sidearms for several reasons.

1. I have since my youth, and I'm now 54

2. They work well in the theme of my vessel and it's reenactments

3. They travel overseas better than guns, and with all of them having great value for originality, I can sell them for necessary ship repairs worldwide. I do know my weapons.