Ship's Lanterns, Rush Candles, Frog Lanterns &c

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

I'm bored, it's raining AND hot, so I did a little more digging. I cannot translate but this has pictures:

http://www.museum-joanneum.at/upload/file/Geo7_10_Hiden_1_.pdf

Maybe this will help some, but I don't know about using them on ships.

*EDIT*

Then I found this site:

http://www.century-artifacts.com/securestore/c50991.2.html

...using "frog lamps used in european mines" as my search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1575&bih=980&q=frog+lamps+used+in+european+mines&btnG=Google+Search&oq=frog+lamps+used+in+european+mines&aq=f&aqi=&aql=undefined&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=2766l14047l0l14l14l0l0l0l2l1110l3907l5-2.2.1l5

Now we're getting somewhere.

Bo

Edited July 7, 2011 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Well I did my best to try and find out if those lamps were ever used on ships, and the best I came up with is not likely. Nothing conclusive though. The only oil lamps that were shown to be used on ships are the later types with glass globes. The type shown in the original post is way past GAoP anyhow, and is not really a typical design for the "frog lamp", which is more like the "betty lamp" in design than the "pitcher" type. If they were to use an oil lamp aboard ship it would have to be suspended and kept free to move with the pitch and roll of the sea. That big base would work well on a table on land or on a pedestal in a mine, but common sense tells me not on a ship.

FWIW

Bo

[Silver]

good finds so the "frog" is actually a common oilwick lamp and the squatty little lamps are frogs. i have a small lamp like the frog, bought it oversea in turkey it is shaped like an arab slipper the wick at the toe. in the P.I. folks would use something like the oilwick lamp they made them from tin cans you could burn anything in them that the wick could draw up. i brought a couple back with me. good bug lamps. btw hitler is on page 183!

[jendobyns]

good finds so the "frog" is actually a common oilwick lamp and the squatty little lamps are frogs. i have a small lamp like the frog, bought it oversea in turkey it is shaped like an arab slipper the wick at the toe. in the P.I. folks would use something like the oilwick lamp they made them from tin cans you could burn anything in them that the wick could draw up. i brought a couple back with me. good bug lamps. btw hitler is on page 183!

The style you brought back from Turkey sounds like the really ancient type that is common there, you find them in Roman digs and other places as well. The label for the metal one in the original post was rather misleading, that isn't the particular style that is the oldest, but oil lamps that burn fat and oil are very ancient, like the style you have.

I have one that is more dish shaped, with a lip, and open. Burns olive oil quite nicely, although it smells kind of odd until you get used to it. The light it gives off is lovely. I think it is a 14C style. The 18C site where I volunteer has two, a betty lamp and a double cruzie lamp, which also burn oil. Very primitive style, but made of iron.

There is an organization, called the Rushlight Society, which is, or was, devoted to early lighting. They have publications that it might be worth reading if you can get them. If it makes light, they probably cover it.

[oderlesseye]

Thanx For all your input on this subject..Eye now have a broader perspective when it came to lighting..but on board a tall ship of the day? Wot was common and considered safe ?

[Silver]

that is a very good question? there where lanterns used about the ships, i can think of a few places i have found in my reads such as the big stern light called the "poop lantern" the light in the powder room, the helmsman light in the binnacle, the captain, surgeon and navigator had lighting, the gunner(dark lantern) someone going below deck into the hold. and of course the smoking lamp.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Don't ave time today to browse all the wreck stuff, but heres a link to a site where you can see what has been recovered from different wrecks. Maybe some clues here:

http://www.oceantreasures.org/rubrique,famous-wrecks,1070488.html

You might also look into the threads in the shipyard forum on Whydah, the LaBelle, and there's another "stickied" there as well. Gotta go back to mowing and cutting trails.

Bo

[MarkG]

the frog lantern- found a site where miner's lamps are shown this lamp is like what we call the tea pot lamp which is a oil burning lamp made in the 1860's for mining, the tea pot had a hook that allowed the lamp to be fastened on the front of the hat. as far a using oil and open flame for lighting aboard wooden sailing ships "fire hazzard" comes to mind. anyone got any doc. on prefered 17th century shipboard lighting? i vote for candles.

Candles were expensive in the 17th century and they take up a lot of space. Ships usually used oil lamps. As far as I can tell, these were short with a wide base and a wick on the top.

Very few lights were allowed on a ship. Typically the only lights would be a running light in a lantern hung from the stern, a light for the captain and/or navigator to use, a light in the binnacle, and, possibly, a single light below decks. Even four lights constituted a fire hazard and many ships burned.

[Silver]

i have a book by robinson and dow "sailing ships of new england" i pulled it off the shelve and found the inventory done on march 16 1703 of ship PROVIDENCE GALLEY 90 tons in the listing is "three poop lights" "three lanthorns" i look for oil or candles none listed.

[Silver]

did some digging through my pirate library and have come up with some quotes where lighting is addressed: 1- articals of the ship "revenge" capt. J. Phillips 1723, VI. the man that snaps his arms, or smokes tobacco in the hold, without a cap to his pipe, or carry a candle lighted without a lanthorn, shall suffer the same punishment as in the former article. (40stripes lacking 1 on the bare back). 2- articals of the "royal fortune" capt. Robert's 1720 IV. the lights and candles to be put out at eight a-clock at night: if any of the crew, after that hour , still remained inclined for drinking, they were to do it on the open deck. 3- "the sea gunner" J. sellers 1691- art of gunnery pg162- lanthorns, muscovia-lights (means the openings in the lanthorns are covered by mica sheets allowing the light to come through)with a large bottom to put water in, to prevent danger from sparks of the candle flying upon the powder dust that may get into the lanthorn. i tried to find oil but could not as of now.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Tallow candles were less expensive and far more common than expensive wax ones, and the cost of operating a ship, (including providing lighting), was one reason why there were few people that could afford to invest in shipping. Oil for lamps is also very expensive and far more dangerous than candles, as candles don't spill and create a huge flammable area.

Bo

[silas thatcher]

during the gaop, they had candle lanterns as well as oil lanterns...my question is which type was used aboard ship and why ?? i am gonna take a semi educated guess that oil type lanterns ( may have been animal fat type ) were not used due to the fire hazard they posed if spilled...

does anyone have any info on this ??

[Silver]

that came up awhile back, search twill "frog lanterns" july 5th 2011.

[Mission]

After looking at them and the lack of recent postings, I decided to combine these four threads due to the similarity in topic. The comments below are here for posterity or something.
________________
There were several threads on the topic. The two most actively discussed were:

frog lanterns

and

Things that go *Thud* Arrr! Dammit!" in the Night

The second thread seems to contain a little bit more information than the first, but both will be of interest to your question, Silas.

After looking into these, I am really considering combining all these with some of the lesser-discussed threads on the topic with a better title like this thread has. It is an interesting question as to whether such a thread belongs here or in Twill. I was charged with moving all the old Twill threads the fit better in this forum and at the time it seemed like a detail to me, so not really a topic for this forum. Lanterns have wider use than just being on the ship, after all.

Some of the other threads (which are not nearly as helpful as those other two threads) are:

rush candles/lanterns

lanterns

[IvanHenry]

As per the norm - I have a gallery on lanterns... :-)

http://www.ivanhenry.com/extras/16th_17th_18th_century_lantern.html

[landlubbersanonymous]

A decent article on period lighting...

http://clanntartan.s...l/lighting.html

Have not done business with these folks before but product looks good...

http://www.twojs.me.uk/Lanterns.htm

Interesting electric alternative where fire isn't allowed or practical...

http://www.oocities....ern/lantern.htm

Edited June 20, 2012 by landlubbersanonymous

[Mission]

I found some artwork showing period lanterns on wikimedia, so I thought I'd store then in here for those searching for images.

Stilleben mit Küchenutensilien, by Martin Dichtl (before 1710):

A supposed ship's lantern dating to 1720, from American home and garden magazine, July, 1913.

Dentist by Candlelight, Gerrit Dou, c. 1660-65:

Loss of HMS Victory, 4 October 1744, Peter Monomy, (between 1744 and 1749):

[William Brand]

Thanks for adding more and more variations to this thread. I wish we had more period lanterns availably commercially.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

About lantern, if looking to ship's lantern rather than the type carried by hand, it seems different nation's vessel had different styles. These are lanterns for ship's stern.

(Remove this if this picture was already posted somewhere here. I didn't see it.)

Edited December 1, 2015 by Swashbuckler 1700

[sea haugh]

Tallow candles were less expensive and far more common than expensive wax ones, and the cost of operating a ship, (including providing lighting), was one reason why there were few people that could afford to invest in shipping. Oil for lamps is also very expensive and far more dangerous than candles, as candles don't spill and create a huge flammable area.

Bo

Hi, I have a rather odd question in concerns of tallow candles....

are there any instances or records covering the tallow of humans within piracy?

also this....

Tallow Candles or Song of a Doomed Man

Tallow Candles or Song of a Doomed Man

from the singing of Jacqui & Bridie

I have tallow candles white, hanging high, hanging high

I have tallow candles white, hanging high

I have tallow candles white, and I stole them all by night

And my life shall pay for all, when I die, when I die

And my life shall pay for all, when I die

I have twenty ox in store, that's no joke...

...and I aimed for twenty more

And my life shall pay for all...

I went up the Tyburn Hill, in a cart...

...and twas there I made my will

And my life...

I climb'ed up the ladder by a rope...

...then the hangman pulled the rope

And twas never a word I spoke, coming down...

Take a warning all by me, that's no lie...

... for to shun bad company

Or your life...