OLDEST reference to "GROG"

[Tartan Jack]

I seem to recall a reference on a pre-Adm. Vernon mention of "grog" on either this forum or Blackjohn/Foxe's Ye Pirate Brethren.

Now, i can't find it (try a search for "grog" on a pirate forum).

Anyone one KNOW is such a reference exists?

(EVEN if the term meant a rather different drink than the later cut-rum "grog")

[Dorian Lasseter]

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grog

It is very widely believed that the name "grog" came from the nickname of Admiral Edward "Old Grog" Vernon, but since the word appears in a book written by Daniel Defoe in 1718, well before Admiral Vernon's West Indian career began, and 22 years before his famous order to dilute the rum ration, this cannot be so. Significantly, it is in the 1718 book (The Family Instructor, Part II) a little former slave boy, Toby, from Barbados, who is the character using the word, stating that "the black mans" in the West Indies "make the sugar, make the grog, much great work, much weary work all day long." Since Defoe had trading interests which gave him connections at the great seaports of the day, it is likely that he had heard the word used by similar visitors to Britain from the West Indies. At any rate, the word seems to definitely have entered English from the West Indies - it may have an African origin. It is likely, therefore, that "Old Grog"'s nickname came from the drink, rather than from his cloak and that his family put about the story about the grogram cloak to cover up this minor shame. However, while the word "grog" referring to rum antedates Vernon's rations, the use of the word to refer to diluted rum may post-date him.

So... this was a quick search, I do believe there's more elsewhere, but I'll not be lookin' it up right this minute. Hope it helps...

[Graydog]

I seem to recall a reference on a pre-Adm. Vernon mention of "grog" on either this forum or Blackjohn/Foxe's Ye Pirate Brethren.

Now, i can't find it (try a search for "grog" on a pirate forum).

Anyone one KNOW is such a reference exists?

(EVEN if the term meant a rather different drink than the later cut-rum "grog")

I have the exact same recollection but for the life of me can't find the reference. This is of course is at odds with the accepted use of where the term comes from that was listed in the wiki.

I was having a chat on this item this weekend and when asked to come up with a refernce to prove this point the best I could find is this very old post of the same question.

Anybody have a refernce for the use of the term grog prior to the often quoted wiki answer?

Thank you.

[Fox]

Following the wiki link provided, it appear that the entry has been changed recently (last month) to take account of the fact that the Defoe use of 'grog' has actually been misquoted, and in fact should read 'make the ginger'.

[Graydog]

Following the wiki link provided, it appear that the entry has been changed recently (last month) to take account of the fact that the Defoe use of 'grog' has actually been misquoted, and in fact should read 'make the ginger'.

Thanks for the info!

[blackjohn]

I seem to recall a reference on a pre-Adm. Vernon mention of "grog" on either this forum or Blackjohn/Foxe's Ye Pirate Brethren.

Now, i can't find it (try a search for "grog" on a pirate forum).

Anyone one KNOW is such a reference exists?

(EVEN if the term meant a rather different drink than the later cut-rum "grog")

Fwiw, I believe this is the thread you may have been looking for.