Minimum Garb Standards

[Mary Diamond]

As this is a new Season, I thought some of our new Members might benefit from this thread ~

[Cheeky Actress]

New Archangel Crewe members should check with Captain Sterling

first before making any purchases, please.

Thank you...now back to our program....

[michaelsbagley]

Bump!!!

With the year ending, and all the events being wrapped up for this year, a lot of people are turning their minds to next year, including a fair number of people new to the scene or those considering trying out re-enactment... So I thought I would resurrect this thread in hopes that it may help.

Cheers.

[Rev.Sam]

I'm workin on my kit as well. Currently I am trying to find either a pattern for a short jacket or a good enough ready made one that I could purchase, as I will (with the help of very awesome people) be gettin a pattern for shirt, an pants. So far it is coming along. An yes, I do have shoes on the horizon

[sutlerjon]

Hi all

I'm new to this our 1st event was PIP in Key west. My names Jim and I'm a sutler, the store is Old Sutler John and I do wood work and Leather and I have access to a great seamstress that does the colonial time period quite well. Our prices are reasonable and I hope a couple of the folks we met at Fort Taylor will give me a couple of props. (hint for Dutch and Lady Grace and Capt Hurricane and "The Goddess in the Bodice" Please).

[michaelsbagley]

1700 - 1715 Waistcoat pattern

The above pattern is for a long waistcoat... But if you are good enough at scaling patterns to fit it to yourself, shortening the coat to a shorter style should be a cinch. There is also great information and pattern basics to be found in the Arnish Moor Archeological Survey and the Quintfall Hill Archeological find and/or Gunnister Man find (which I can't find my link to at the moment, but know is online).

[Rev.Sam]

Thanks Michael! I am going to keep lookin as well to see what I find on the internets, but I'll post it here. basically th' look I am goin for is one of those short blue gunner jackets, but I don't know if those are period correct or not. I jus' like the cut of em

[LadyBarbossa]

Oooo... thanks fo' th' pattern image. So much there at Costumes.org. :) Gotta love 'em. I'd not seen that one.

I fancy the idea of makin' a new outfit or two that's more period correct or close enough. The pieces I have are rather off. Need to sell what I have first before I get new outfits, though.

~Lady B

[Dutchman]

oy sutlerjon, welcome to the pub- now head up to the crows nest for a proper introduction of yourself and buy the crew a round. ye can afford it ye bugger- crimpin us like ye did at PIP with yer fancy tables an lanthorns and shinny bobbles.

[michaelsbagley]

Bump...

I've had a few people private message me about starting gear recently.... And while sewing/making one's one gear is the cheapest way... Not everyone has the time for that... So I thought I would try and post some links to some ready made stuff for those who can't sew, don't want to sew, or have noe one to do it for them. Understand there is not a great deal of stuff out there that is ready made that is absolutely correct for GAoP, so most of the below items will fall into the "close enough" category...

Sailor's/Workmen's Coats (or close proximity thereof)

From Jas Townsend

Sleeved Waistcoat also from Jas Townsend

Sleeveless version of above in wool

Sleeveless version of above in linen

Sleeveless waistcoat from Flying Canoe

Shirts

Checked shirt from Jas Townsend

White linen version of above

Cotton version for those who insist they can't afford linen

From flying Canoe Traders in cotton

From Flying Canoe in cotton/linen blend - only $5 more than just cotton

Breeches/Slops

KNee breeches in cotton canvas

Knee breeches in linen

Slops in cotton canvas

Slops in linen - Please not the fall front fly is very wrong for GAoP, but I include the Jas townsend slops because of price and type of fly is not always the easiest thing to notice

KNee Breecehs from Flying Canoe

Sailors Slops from Flying Canoe which are cheaper and more correct than the Jas Townsend ones because of the "French Fly" over the "Drop Front"

Reconstructing History does carry some clothing, but I have heard conflicting rumours as to whether they will be continueing to do so or not. tehy are worth checking out either way.

That should provide a pretty good start, please chime in with other vendor options whether close enough or if they exist dead on stuff.

[Commodore Swab]

Cotton-Linen-Hemp, Blues, Browns, and white seems to be all you hear . . .

Now feel free to correct me if Im wrong but wouldn't silk of also been an option? Didn't pirates often capture vessels that would of been carrying goods like textiles? Perhaps a redcoat that had the sleves torn off or resewed to fit would be equally fine? I keep imanging that most of what pirates wore would of been a collection of whatever they could get their hands on and whatever fit.

[Capt. Sterling]

Cotton-Linen-Hemp, Blues, Browns, and white seems to be all you hear . . .

Now feel free to correct me if Im wrong but wouldn't silk of also been an option? Didn't pirates often capture vessels that would of been carrying goods like textiles? Perhaps a redcoat that had the sleves torn off or resewed to fit would be equally fine? I keep imanging that most of what pirates wore would of been a collection of whatever they could get their hands on and whatever fit.

Silk could be an option, depending on your status... most likely a common pirate would be happier selling any silks taken than making clothing out it for personal use... there are numerous discussions concerning such over in the Twill area... you might wish to check some of them out... many are very helpful...

[Commodore Swab]

There is a silk produced in Thailand that is unique to say the least. If you come across much of what is still made by hand up country you will find it to be more comparable to canvas than a silk very intestering, the colors can be almost Iridescent (and they have been making it like that for hundreds of years). I was thinking of using some and making some clothes if not for myself then at least for my wife who is Thai.

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

I have ordered the shirt pattern from Reconstructing History for my first hand sewn, self made article of clothing, and while I will most certainly make a white shirt, I would like to know options of other solids, stripes or patterns (other than blue check) that would be a good option.

For starters would any of these be acceptable?

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...;fabric_id=1042

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...;fabric_id=1023

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...;fabric_id=1027

Thanks!

[Capt. Sterling]

Don't actually get the white, get the bleached linen for a plain "white" shirt... the white they offer wasn't available in the GAOP ...

As to the other striped fabrics...rather see those as trousers instead of shirts (just my opinion)... can't say I have run across too many striped shirts, but then I haven't really been looking for them as our crewe does the checked...tons of stripes for the ladies though...

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

Don't actually get the white, get the bleached linen for a plain "white" shirt... the white they offer wasn't available in the GAOP ...

As to the other striped fabrics...rather see those as trousers instead of shirts (just my opinion)... can't say I have run across too many striped shirts, but then I haven't really been looking for them as our crewe does the checked...tons of stripes for the ladies though...

Thanks for the info. I was just wondering.... mostly based on images from Nat. Geo's Blackbeard Terror of the Sea. While i know not to use film as an example of what's PC, I did find their costuming to be pretty darn good. They featured several dark and lightly pattern shirts that made me wonder if this was a costumer's addition or something based on research.

Here's a dark solid and a light stripe:

another solid:

http://jamespurefoy.us/blackbeard-gallery/bbrd019.jpg

Better look at that stripe pattern:

http://jamespurefoy.us/blackbeard-gallery/bbrd062.jpg

Solids again:

http://jamespurefoy.us/blackbeard-gallery/bbrd651.jpg

[michaelsbagley]

As an "and" to Sterling's post (which is all VERY good advice.

There is a reference in the Admirality Slop contracts to check'd shirts. Now I am sorry I couldn't dig up the link, but there was a really in depth conversation about this years ago on the pub... I believe only one piece of pictoral evidence to support checkered shirts was found and it seemed to show "crossbar" or "windowpane" style checks, whereas the more gingham style checks are the easiest to find in linen.

Now one piece of evidence certainly doesn;t mean that the more gingham style checks would be wrong, in fact a year or so a couple of guys on the pub

9who I haven't seen around in a while) did their shirts in the more gingham styled checks, and I thought they looked great! I think the guys were in the same group/crew/geographical region... I think one of them may have posted here as CasketChris... regardless, I think checked shirts are very underrepresented and look cool... I've been thinking of doing a checked shirt for myself for sometime, but it has been one of those projects that has constantly been pushed aside... I think Captain Jim has a checked shirt as well that is pretty cool.

But on a more practical note, a plain bleached white shirt would be the most versatile and easiest to accomplish.

[1stMate Matt]

Hey if you guys could nail down a standard for a minimum kit for said events, I would love to get it published in Pirates Magazine for you. We could do a little one pager on it.

Could be a good start for getting Pyracy.com in the mag. Maybe we could then do a one pager each issue and elaborate on certain articles of the kit.

I say lets do this!

[Capt. Sterling]

That would be easy, just follow the Slops contracts... shirt, breeches or trousers, not the huge(wide) legged petticote breeches, as we don't seem to have enough evidence to make them common for the time frame yet, sailor's jacket, neck scarf, buckled shoes, stockings, cap or hat. Later on you can add weskit and other details... if you want we could send you some pictures of the "kiddies" all dressed as well... and perhaps you could get Mickey to send you some soldiers stuff as well... as the pirates need someone to go up against...

Edited May 6, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[Capt. Sterling]

As an "and" to Sterling's post (which is all VERY good advice.

There is a reference in the Admirality Slop contracts to check'd shirts. Now I am sorry I couldn't dig up the link, but there was a really in depth conversation about this years ago on the pub... I believe only one piece of pictoral evidence to support checkered shirts was found and it seemed to show "crossbar" or "windowpane" style checks, whereas the more gingham style checks are the easiest to find in linen.

Now one piece of evidence certainly doesn;t mean that the more gingham style checks would be wrong, in fact a year or so a couple of guys on the pub

9who I haven't seen around in a while) did their shirts in the more gingham styled checks, and I thought they looked great! I think the guys were in the same group/crew/geographical region... I think one of them may have posted here as CasketChris... regardless, I think checked shirts are very underrepresented and look cool... I've been thinking of doing a checked shirt for myself for sometime, but it has been one of those projects that has constantly been pushed aside... I think Captain Jim has a checked shirt as well that is pretty cool.

But on a more practical note, a plain bleached white shirt would be the most versatile and easiest to accomplish.

Mickey is correct in saying that checked could mean more than just modern day gingham... from Montgomery checked seems to mean anything from what we call gingham to plaid with window pane checked thrown in there as well...unfortunately does not include stripes..

[LadyBarbossa]

Good point there about the checked.

The silk and sea salt don't really mix all that well.

There are a wide variety of other fabrics to use, too. Calicos in linens, too, perhaps.

I do have on the main page for the Resurrection's new website a list on the side of possible sulters and vendors who could help for newcomers who haven't the time to make their own attire. http://resurrectionpirates.guidlaunch.com

~Lady B

[Capt. Sterling]

Honestly it really depends on what you mean by calicoes.. in our time frame Calico usually refers to Indian calicoes which were cotton, not linen, and were outlawed twice in England during our frame... now if you were in the colonies you could have them... now the problem being... the cotton you get in the local "joann's" most likely has nothing to do with what cotton was like in the GaoP... even today Indian cottons have little resemblance to the $1.89 cottons we sell regularly over here...

Edited May 6, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[callenish gunner]

While the slops contracts covered those sailors in the King's Navy they didn't cover the larger merchantman fleet that plied the world's seas ...so basing all sailors as King's Navy wouldn't give a whole and complete picture of seaman of the period; just as today not every sailor or fisherman or seaman wears the uniform of any nation's navy. To logical thought that is ethnocentric bias not based in fact or research. It's the problem of making cookie cutter solutions to complex problems. Just my tupence worth of oppinion

Edited May 6, 2009 by callenish gunner

[michaelsbagley]

While the slops contracts covered those sailors in the King's Navy they didn't cover the larger merchantman fleet that plied the world's seas ...so basing all sailors as King's Navy wouldn't give a whole and complete picture of seaman of the period; just as today not every sailor or fisherman or seaman wears the uniform of any nation's navy. To logical thought that is ethnocentric bias not based in fact or research. It's the problem of making cookie cutter solutions to complex problems. Just my tupence worth of oppinion

This is the common rebuttal to the Admirality Contracts.... But the Admirality Slop Contracts for clothing was something that all ships operating under the British Admirality had to adhere to, which included some/most/all? merchant vessels as well. The Navy didn't have uniforms yet, and the slops contracts were not uniforms (as there is some variety in the contracts) nor are slop contract clothing restricted to the navy. While dressing ALL pirates thusly would be aesthetically displeasing (and likely historically innacurrate as well), seeing the slop contract clothing more commonly/more often wouldn't be bad or wrong. Two out of the three main components of my set of pirate clothing are from the slops contracts (the green waistcoat is where I deviate), so even using partial slop contract items still allows for tons of variety!

[Capt. Sterling]

true but still the contracts are a good basis to start from as they very much cover a "style" for lack of a better word, that most newbies hold in their minds, that being English, Scottish, Welsh, or colonists sailors/merchantmen/ pirates. And I am not saying one has to follow the colors prescribed there, just the cut... Now once settled into the idea that said newbie wants to follow the historical side of the hobby, they can get away at most events with the basics from the contracts... now if they wish to portray a sailor from Norway, or North Africa... aye, I agree their kit is going to most likely take on an entirely different look..Hey just look at the discussion in Twill regarding the extremely wide breeches the Dutch were wearing according to some of the prints..... this would be something that they will have to research and document... and most likely bring with them to events that might require proof of their impression... but for the basic kit for newbies, I still say the contracts are the best basis to follow (and Like Mickey pointed out, with certain changes, and again, we don't really know what checked meant to the contracts, or ticken for that matter... Kass and I went over numerous variations on what could be used )....at least they can start playing at events right away

so how different were the merchant class sailors other than perhaps fabric choices?

And frankly Hugh... I do agree, perhaps it is time to have some more ethnic differences applied to kit at events... it would be nice...time to raise the bar again?

Edited May 6, 2009 by Capt. Sterling