theM.A.dDogge Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 yo mickey...ya bring up a good point....staged vs combat.... really this distinguished by the guys running the show...and what they are comfortable letting us do ( or get away with)...... being experienced with each...old theatre guy plus 20 years re-enactment...(tho never any sca...not sure why).....i agree with ya on the splitting of hairs...and type of weapon used..... but here is the major thing as i see it....in what we use...comes down to control...control of your weapon....control of the scenario...control of the area...control of the participants...etc... liked staged....its just that...staged....dont really hit the other guy...come close...make it look good...but no hitting....even in battle scenario....where your opponent may very...use preset moves...with the proper "cues" for each....you can have an "impromptu" staged fight...or loosley choegraphed fight...and still maintain the saftey of all....'course this still goes back to makeing sure everyone is on the same page...using the same guidelines...as predetermined by the event chordinators....tho some of us have been doing this ( or similar) for many a year now...this paticular type of venue is new and standards have yet to reach a broad spectrum....til this happens....i believe it is up to us...the events...and the grouos out there to get together at these events...see other techniques...see what works and what dosent...and why....so as to teach others to do the same... and usually battle scenarios that we will be using in this venue and those similar... would be of the type where the "victors" will already be determined....say the pirates invade but are pushed back...or are all killed...or are taking prisoner...or sack the town.....whatever....but you should go into the battle already knowing if yer on the winning side or no....which greatly inhibits the idea of "competition" element out of the mix....or should anyhow.... edit: sorry hand....need to start reading all the posts before i just jump in.....yep sir...i agree with ya too....thats what we have done in the past....highlight a few swordfighters.....up close an personal like....and some simpler farthur down the line.....none f this has to be very complicated.....actually we have founf that the simpler fights end up looking more real....with people falling or running away...or being chased a bit.....but yeah...you got the gist of it....
michaelsbagley Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 yo mickey...ya bring up a good point....staged vs combat....really this distinguished by the guys running the show...and what they are comfortable letting us do ( or get away with)...... being experienced with each...old theatre guy plus 20 years re-enactment...(tho never any sca...not sure why).....i agree with ya on the splitting of hairs...and type of weapon used..... but here is the major thing as i see it....in what we use...comes down to control...control of your weapon....control of the scenario...control of the area...control of the participants...etc... liked staged....its just that...staged....dont really hit the other guy...come close...make it look good...but no hitting....even in battle scenario....where your opponent may very...use preset moves...with the proper "cues" for each....you can have an "impromptu" staged fight...or loosley choegraphed fight...and still maintain the saftey of all....'course this still goes back to makeing sure everyone is on the same page...using the same guidelines...as predetermined by the event chordinators....tho some of us have been doing this ( or similar) for many a year now...this paticular type of venue is new and standards have yet to reach a broad spectrum....til this happens....i believe it is up to us...the events...and the grouos out there to get together at these events...see other techniques...see what works and what dosent...and why....so as to teach others to do the same... and usually battle scenarios that we will be using in this venue and those similar... would be of the type where the "victors" will already be determined....say the pirates invade but are pushed back...or are all killed...or are taking prisoner...or sack the town.....whatever....but you should go into the battle already knowing if yer on the winning side or no....which greatly inhibits the idea of "competition" element out of the mix....or should anyhow.... edit: sorry hand....need to start reading all the posts before i just jump in.....yep sir...i agree with ya too....thats what we have done in the past....highlight a few swordfighters.....up close an personal like....and some simpler farthur down the line.....none f this has to be very complicated.....actually we have founf that the simpler fights end up looking more real....with people falling or running away...or being chased a bit.....but yeah...you got the gist of it.... M.A.d'Ogge, You may have accidentally contributed to my "persona" development there... If I can find that "Mickey" is period appropriate, I may just use that. (Can I be Mickey Souris? Just to bring in some humour and a bit of my French heritage....(Souris is pronouced "soo-REE", and it means "mouse")) I think we are finally understanding each other.... Or at least I hope I am... I don't have much "stage" or "theatrical" experience, so my views on it are as an "outsider" looking in. And your explanations are helping me get a better view on it. Too m,any years (but no where near as many as you have) of competetive (and semi-competetive) combat has probably skewed my views on "staged" or "theatrical" combat. I think maybe doing a mock-up list (not carved in stone) of those participating, and their combat leaning might help better determine what we should be doing... It sounds like the Archangel Crewe are for the most part all ready (or will have the time to get ready) for a staged combat demo. But if my understanding is correct, the Archangel Crewe will most likely be all fighting on the same side. Not much use having one or two handfuls of guys and gals who are all playing to one convention all on the same side, if all the folks on the other "side" are playing to a different standard. So far as I see it, the list would look something like this. (in no particular order) Name Side Experience or combat leanings Patrick Hand Pirate ? (I'm guessing some or even a lot) Aminjiria Pirate Some? But no weapon Silkie Pirate Little? Weapon? Michael S Bagley Pirate 8 or 9 years competetive experience, currently only has fencing grade weapons for this period Wiliam Red Wake Pirate? ? Captain Jim Pirate ? Elninoprimo ? (pirate?) ? Hauting Lily Pirate? ? Jacobite Pirate ? Cascabel Pirate ? (I'm guessing some to a lot) Master Studley Either side ? (I'm guessing some to a lot) Callenish Gunner Pirate ?(I'm guessing some to a lot) Fayma Callahan Pirate? ? (beginner?) Archangel Crewe - All privateers? - Various levels of ability, but able to work together prior to PiP to be more or less solid. Cpt. Sterling M.A.d'Ogge Rats Bastian Deveraux Mary Diamond Others? This list is just from this thread, I'm sure there would be others if I went back through the other threads. Please feel free to cut and paste and edit this list. I hope this helps....
Capt. Sterling Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 But if my understanding is correct, the Archangel Crewe will most likely be all fighting on the same side. No, not necessarily so... we are more than happy to break up and play opposing sides, we have done so a number of times, especially regarding the hangings as we need to control both ends of the rope (them that do the swinging and them that do the sending off). And frankly, we love to haul off on each other!! As a matter of fact the only event we were all on the same side was the first battle at Lockhouse and Reenactor Fest.. At Paynetown we split for the battle as well since no one wanted to be in charge of the pirates... Maddogge finally volunteered which allowed he and I to go at each other as he charged up the hill... sword and dagger to sword... Although we are all crew members we are more than willing to switch sides in order to make the event scenario work... nothing worse than having a great battle plan and everyone only wanting to be on the wining side... And since we are hoping to do a hanging at PiP, Maddogge and I will automatically be on opposite sides... we'll just cut Rats in half and divvy up the rest of the crew... Oi Maddogge, Rats, Any way we can do a fund raiser and fly down some of the Swansons?? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Archangel Crewe - All privateers? - Various levels of ability, but able to work together prior to PiP to be more or less solid.Cpt. Sterling M.A.d'Ogge Rats Bastian Deveraux Mary Diamond Others? Others... include both Midshipmen...Mr. Merriweathers the younger and elder One already knows what they are doing and the other will be ready by PiP, If Cheeky comes on board we will have her as well to fight if needed... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Let Others... include both Midshipmen...Mr. Merriweathers the younger and elder One already knows what they are doing and the other will be ready by PiP, If Cheeky comes on board we will have her as well to fight if needed... Let me clarify this a bit more... the snotties and grommets fight each other, NOT adults from other crews... but they, as well, can be split up onto opposing sides "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Cascabel Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 So far as I see it, the list would look something like this.(in no particular order) Name Side Experience or combat leanings Patrick Hand Pirate ? (I'm guessing some or even a lot) Aminjiria Pirate Some? But no weapon Silkie Pirate Little? Weapon? Michael S Bagley Pirate 8 or 9 years competetive experience, currently only has fencing grade weapons for this period Wiliam Red Wake Pirate? ? Captain Jim Pirate ? Elninoprimo ? (pirate?) ? Hauting Lily Pirate? ? Jacobite Pirate ? Cascabel Pirate ? (I'm guessing some to a lot) Master Studley Either side ? (I'm guessing some to a lot) Callenish Gunner Pirate ?(I'm guessing some to a lot) Fayma Callahan Pirate? ? (beginner?) Archangel Crewe - All privateers? - Various levels of ability, but able to work together prior to PiP to be more or less solid. Cpt. Sterling M.A.d'Ogge Rats Bastian Deveraux Mary Diamond Others? This list is just from this thread, I'm sure there would be others if I went back through the other threads. Please feel free to cut and paste and edit this list. I hope this helps.... It might be a good idea to poll the people that will be there to see what experience they have, and where their interest lies in this area. As for myself, I carry a sword (various ones), mostly for appearances, and very seldom do anything fight related with it. I am for the most part a "gun guy". I'm real good at brandishing, threatening, and generally mouthing off with sword in hand, but I leave the athletics to the more experienced stage combat folks. I my experience, I find that things like this work best with a pre-determined outcome, so that everyone knows where they need to be, and what they are going to do, and with whom. Engagements done for the entertainment of the public really should be scripted, so that the right guys win, and no one gets hurt. I think it might be good to periodically stage a few one on one impromptu fights in some sort of "fight circle" throughout the day. These could be done a bit more on a competitive basis, where the experienced guys would have a chance to shine. >>>> Cascabel
Cheeky Actress Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 PLAY WITH ME! Lilly giggling.... Come now Mary! Put that thing down before you scare the men...AGAIN! Member of "The Forsaken"
Jack Roberts Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 It might be a good idea to poll the people that will be there to see what experience they have, and where their interest lies in this area. Well I have to admit I don't have any professional experience with sword play. I have choreographed few "light saber" fights for a spoof I filmed years ago. They seemed to turn out well, but no real experience. I am pretty good at picking up choreography quickly. I would love to be in a sword fight of some sort, although I understand completely if I'm deemed unsafe once onsite. As to the borrowing of blades and such, I certainly am not relying on others. Just if there is some free time and a blade or 2 (or I can bring some sticks if nesessary) I would be fun for me to begin to learn the basics. "Mickey", , I love it!
theM.A.dDogge Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 tho to be in a combat scenario ie BATTLE...a sword is not always necsary to be in a "sword fight"....kinda like bringing a knife to a gun fight.....there are plenty of references of cudgels...ie "big ass stick"....also single sticking was a safe way to practice sword techniques in port....while the irish/scottish/welsh...were known to have stick fighting bouts...kinda like boxing with a club in yer hand.... in fact we have used several scenarios where the invaders to camp were repeled by...well what ever was handy....iron poker...an axe....cast iron pot firewood...etc.....same goes for this....a walking stick was carried in many a period portraits....but carried at the ready...not used for walking...especially in port were many local lawws prohibited carriying of weapons...... in a perfect world...everyone would have a beutiful sword and pistol to be envy of fer sure....but in reality...if someone uglier than me was chasing after me....im picking up whatever was handy to even the odds in me favor..... sorry ...rambling again.... yo...cassie....yeah...im bit of a half breed meself.....a mix of a gun guy...and sword guy...guess just depends on how close they are??
Mary Diamond Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 PLAY WITH ME! Lilly giggling.... Come now Mary! Put that thing down before you scare the men...AGAIN! Aww, do I have to? in fact we have used several scenarios where the invaders to camp were repeled by...well what ever was handy....iron poker...an axe....cast iron pot firewood...etc.....same goes for this....a walking stick was carried in many a period portraits....but carried at the ready...not used for walking...especially in port were many local lawws prohibited carriying of weapons...... Precisely! THIS GOES FOR YOU WALL-FLOWER LADIES, TOO! Grab a Frying Pan and jump right in ~ Oooh, shiny!
Rats Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 Women and guns and swords! Oh my!! Throw in a few nicely packet corsets and a hogshead o' rum..... By God I love being a pirate!! This really is great to have folks working this out!!! I love the forward progress! I have also been talking with Lt. March about safety pikes and such. I believe our DD was checking into some possible molding techniques at one time or another???? DD? I would also like to add, this whole conersation is an excellent reason for folks to go to PIP. If nothing else, so we can come to an accord for future events and get the hands on!! For the roster... Rats: Shooting experience...Dying experience (It's true! I die really good, so the good guys can get all the credit! Damn good guys!) Blade work while getting whooped by Maddog. I would also be more than willing to go against newer fighters and try to keep folks safe. I would also like to mention... As seen in Un-Civil or as others call it "Silly WAR" reenactments, we should have folks ocassionally fall, take wounds and especially Take cover and react when shot at!!! There is nothing worse than to see twenty people on each side calmly shoot at each other, and no one fall down..??! I once died in eight different areas of a battlefield, after changing hats, jackets, being bandaged and bloodied (So I looked like a different trooper). Just because no one was dying and thought they were invincible!! Just thought I would add to the confusion!! Cheers! No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?!
Patrick Hand Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 There is nothing worse than to see twenty people on each side calmly shoot at each other, and no one fall down..??! We'll have to figure out some good senerios then.... Something to consider.... the ground is coral, and it's out in the open (No Shade).... Without a good senerio, if you take a hit, your going to be out on the ground for awhile...... Just standing in a line and shooting at the Fort is safe.... but it isn't very exciting to watch.....
Abrams Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 Now, I'm not gonna be there (it is a shame), but will I be able to see boarding axes in pictures of these skirmishes? Y'know, really diversify up the weapons and whatnot... I've got the heart of a pirate, just not the garb...
theM.A.dDogge Posted September 6, 2007 Posted September 6, 2007 oh yeah...tar will be swords, knives, boardin axes, cudgels,rocks, dead fish, live fish, sea guls, coral, a palm frond or two perhaps, even a cast iron pot...or whatever else seems ta be handy....
Rats Posted September 6, 2007 Posted September 6, 2007 Aye! I even remember when Mad Dog pushed that nice lady down, so he could use her child's stroller as a siege engine!!! Even with the child biting at his leg and the mother perched atop of his back like jungle cat.....a Successful Raid it was!! Good thinking! They never saw it comming... sort of! No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?!
theM.A.dDogge Posted September 6, 2007 Posted September 6, 2007 yeah...but they all had it commin...all of em did...da basta'ds.....and thier lil dog totto too....ill git ya me pretty.....he...hehehehehe..... oopps...nevermind
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