the skirmish'es?

[michaelsbagley]

I will be more than happy to take the time to help any "newbies" to be safe with black powder weapons. There is far too much incorrect information passed around out there. Mostly not dangerous stuff, but simply not the best way to do things. If there is sufficient interest, I will schedule a beginning black powder class.

For those that have a subscription to "No Quarter Given" magazine, there is a very in-depth 3 part article written by me on how to operate flintlocks in recent issues.

>>>>> Cascabel

If that is an offer for an introduction to black powder, I'll be coming to you for sure.... Even if I get some teaching before then, I like to learn things a few times from different people to get the best in depth knowledge I can.

I'll also look for the magazine article. Thanks for mentioning it!

[Master Sully]

Can anyone "galvanize" for the battle? I'll be bringing my early colonial scout rig, just in case Harry's troops gets outnumbered. We wouldn't want a cake-walk for the pirates, would we?

[jacobite]

First off..i'm really glad i opened this can Of worms.....

First off Safety meetings Training ect....

I'm really glad that this was broached ... I agree with the Capt on the Safety meetings ALOT!!!!!! Iwas a SO for one of the Boats durring John Leviqe days... and I Gota Tell you Everyone that was on that boat(that was orignaly suposed to fire) had to go through a black powder class and went to a safety meeting the moring of the event we were joined by a couple of other folks who were" known" in the pirate comunity and had no problems with them.....the only problem came from Lord God King of the Farby pirates )who happened to own the boat with his double barrel shotgun and a cannon that came from Garage sale of some Gasperilla pirate float that was eginited by banging a hammer on the back of said cannon.....Nedless to say my crew did fantastic(a first time for most of them with black powder no issues what so ever) as did our guests...MR polester Mac pirate man..well even with hearing protection....I still a little out of it three weeks latter....

so the moral of that tie raid..Yes to safety meetings (no meeting no shooty bang bang)

Yes to Safety officer...they are there for your protections and the public...

Yes to run thoughs for hand to hand...Very important...

And lastly Galvaniztion.....I'm serriously thinking about it

[callenish gunner]

i have no problem working with cascabel and braze or others with regards to safety ....i'm a staunch believer in doing them right the first time instead of learning from painful mistakes .... safe boomers make everyone happy

[Fayma Callahan]

I am interested in a beginner Blackpowder class, and think at least a few of my crewe as well. It would be great to work with Callenish, Braze and Cascabel and get it right. I would also like to put my name in the hat to assist as a medical "First Aid" person, as I am a Registered Nurse who works in the Emergency Department and as an Advanced EMT on the ambulance here as my regular jobs. I have all my own stuff to use, and can bring it with me. I am willing to assist in this role, hopefully all we will need is a bit of Tylenol for the rummy mornings, but am very capable for the more serious of issues. I could even help with a "First Aid Tent" or something, if we feel it necessary.

[William Brand]

I am interested in a beginner Blackpowder class, and think at least a few of my crewe as well. It would be great to work with Callenish, Braze and Cascabel and get it right. I would also like to put my name in the hat to assist as a medical "First Aid" person, as I am a Registered Nurse who works in the Emergency Department and as an Advanced EMT on the ambulance here as my regular jobs. I have all my own stuff to use, and can bring it with me. I am willing to assist in this role, hopefully all we will need is a bit of Tylenol for the rummy mornings, but am very capable for the more serious of issues. I could even help with a "First Aid Tent" or something, if we feel it necessary.

Thank you, Fayma. Persons with first aid experience are highly encouraged to make themselves known to the camps. Since the fort is a state park, they are required to have first aid kits available on site, but Harry has made it known to me that he doesn't mind additional and knowledgable people on site during the festival. Rather, he encourages us to have more first aid available rather than less.

Have you considered playing a sawbones? Do you have period bandages and ghastly instruments?

[Capt. Sterling]

I am interested in a beginner Blackpowder class, and think at least a few of my crewe as well. It would be great to work with Callenish, Braze and Cascabel and get it right. I would also like to put my name in the hat to assist as a medical "First Aid" person, as I am a Registered Nurse who works in the Emergency Department and as an Advanced EMT on the ambulance here as my regular jobs. I have all my own stuff to use, and can bring it with me. I am willing to assist in this role, hopefully all we will need is a bit of Tylenol for the rummy mornings, but am very capable for the more serious of issues. I could even help with a "First Aid Tent" or something, if we feel it necessary.

See folks, this is what I am driving at with Safety Meetings... some of us know each other well, most of us don't know others at all... if we can find out such important little facts, like Fayma Callahan just passed on to us... even if it is at what seems like a last minute Safety Meeting the morning of... we not only make this event so much safer, but that much more professional and some thing that will advance the reputation of Harry's event... the more organized in all areas the better off we shall all be.

And I mean no offense here, but just planning to lay around on the beach drunk all weekend does not make for a great event for all or especially the spectators... and without spectators, unfortunately many events just dry up and disappear... the more round table thinking, the better off we all are at this event and any others...

I think the idea for a Black powder class, perhaps the first morning of directly before or after the Safety Meeting is brilliant... even some of us that have been doing this sort of thing for 35 years or more still like refresher courses...

[Captain Jim]

What an agreeable lot of pyrates we have here. I always find it amazing how when a group of people united in a common goal start thinking ahead it usually results in an organic governing structure that is both effective and unobtrusive. This is especially true when the common goal benefits all equally, in this case to just have a fun and safe time a-pyratin'.

[theM.A.dDogge]

i would be agreeable to be one of the "volunteer ""SAFETY OFFICERS" from the crewe of the Archangels....says i before the Capn' berrates my ear and aft for not doin so earlier......

i will also be willin to lend a hand at trainin...both black powder as well as hand to hand combat...for uses in such scenarios....for i have exstensive experience in both as well....

though i believe blackpowder to be the back bone of a battle.....hand to hand can very much be the icin' on the cake....(can i use those together?).....but safty must always be the first goal.

but micheal did bring up a good point....how to get a safe,but good hand to hand, where we may engage safly...but still look like we killin each other?

in the past we have had members of the same group...split up on to each side....so they may rehearse before times....and then meet in battle...

or we have also met with those from other groups and worked out a small quick routine before the battle....

but generally....we have the shootin...then a few hand to hand...then more shootin....in designated space....but i digress....

what was the question again?

[Rats]

I would also like to offer my assistance in any way. Be it with the boomers or the bloomers, I'm there for the good of the.....

( in his best maddog impression) What were we talking about again??

Rats

[Capt. Sterling]

See what happens when you practice all those hangings.. cuts off too much oxygen to the brain... and then everyone starts to... um...

[Jack Roberts]

Hello MADogge, I would certainly be interested in participating in the hand to hand combat arena. Would I be possible to have a sword fight or 2? I plan on being down there early Wednesday, so after I'm all set up we could certainly work on some choreography. I haven't had any professional experience, but certainly willing to take a hit or 2. Sounds like this will be a lot of fun!

[theM.A.dDogge]

well the general rule has always been...if ya gots no experience with the swords...then you die first!

depending on the scenarios....i would be more than happy to work with you and possibly others for some (safe) hand to hand....course we would have to take a look at your swords....blades really....no sharpies...or too brittle of blades....not just for our safty but for others as well.....and see how it would fit into scenarios.....but i am always up for a bit of play....and if it ...by the powers that be....since im not in charge of anything down there....that there is no room for swords on the battlefield....might be able to work in some training at least....

so the next time we meet the six fingered man....i will no fail (spanish accent)....youu killed my father prepare to ....ah well ...you get the point.....(no pun intended)

[Jack Roberts]

Heck, I'll be happy just to train in between skirmishes. Sounds like PiP is shaping up!

[elninoprimo]

i have some minor experience with blackpowder. But not with flintlocks. I would also like to know more about hand to hand this will be my first event. I will purchase two pistols and a rifle at the event. Ye no se pero querio mater algein.

[theM.A.dDogge]

great onthe up comming purchases of flintlocks.....i have fired about every kind of black powder....modern, cap and ball, matchlocks...cannons....but my favorite by far are flints.....

i am sure there will be many there who can "learnya"on the finer points of flintlock saftey....

[Lily Alexander]

(Fayma Callahan @ Jun 28 2007, 06:15 AM)

I would also like to put my name in the hat to assist as a medical "First Aid" person, as I am a Registered Nurse who works in the Emergency Department and as an Advanced EMT on the ambulance here as my regular jobs. I have all my own stuff to use, and can bring it with me. I am willing to assist in this role, hopefully all we will need is a bit of Tylenol for the rummy mornings, but am very capable for the more serious of issues. I could even help with a "First Aid Tent" or something, if we feel it necessary.

My husband and I are also new to PIP this year and would like to offer our assistance in the first aid department. He was previously NYS certified first responder (defib) with ambulance experience. I have stanard first aid and CPR certification. We can bring supplies as packing and airline restrictions allow.

We are also interested in the gun powder, firearm and any other combat training you will be offering. We have no objections to being killed or maimed early on. lol

Leigh & Keith

[theM.A.dDogge]

well i would like to second the motion to have "cute attractive" skirts playin nursemaids..... ...what ...they actually know first aid too!!!... .even better..... course we get too many cute nurses ...every damn pyrate will take a hit on the first shot!!!! here come the pyrates....one brave lad gets off a shot defending the fort....all the pyrates goes down...BRING ON THE NURSES!!!!

[Patrick Hand]

HEEEELLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOO NURSE.......

[Lily Alexander]

Speaking of nurses, I thought this was an interesting idea so im trying to find more info about nursing in that time period. Other than Charlotte Brown from the French and Indian War, im not having much luck. Does anyone have any ideas on where I might look? Would this question be better suited for Captain Twill?

[Rats]

Since we're talking about skirmishes, we should touch base on the cold, hard facts where steel is concerned... IE the hanger vs. banger discussion.

This is where I'm hoping that MD will chime in and cover this.. But if he's sleeping, I'll come back and go over it....

You out there Mad Dog???!!!

[Patrick Hand]

I'm wondering the safest way to have a "Clash of Arms" with a bunch of people..... that I have never had a sword fight with..... we don't know each others coriography....

What if we set it at one "high swing and block".... then "one low swing and block"... and that's it.... someone falls over" aaargh... I'm dead"...... For someone you haven't fought with before......

So we can safely fight..... and make it look kinda cool.....

And all of us that haven't fought together, can "clash swords"..... but there is no missunderstanding, and no one gets hurt.....

The people that have "Sword Fought befor"... can cover fer that... and make it look cool....."clash... clash" and all the sword fighting coriography, that they already know......

[michaelsbagley]

I think Patrick is on to a good idea...

But there still needs to be some guidelines as to what types of weapons we allow each other to wave at each other.

From experience, people get jostled around in skirmishes, and there is the chance that someone could get pushed onto an opponents weapon (this always happens unintentionally)... As a result of that fact, the metal weapon combat groups I have played with in the past have mandated that no weapon on the field can have a point. I beleive the diameter of a dime has generally been the more or less de-facto standard required for the tip's degree of dullness.

Here lies the problem (for me anyways), many (most even?) stage weapons have points. They're usually not sharp points, but a point doesn't have to be very sharp to peirce and hurt someone. I would prefer to participate in the skirmishes, but as someone who has been in many skirmishes, I know better than to enter a skirmish with any pointed weapons.

I mainly raise this point (pardon the pun), as one show I did a few years ago, I ran into a wall of weapons I was assured were "combat/stage safe" beleiving the weapons had a degree of dullness to them. Let's say while it was a great rush, I look back and marvel at the miracle that I was not hurt (and I mean hurt badly). The weapons were far more pointy than I was lead to believe, in fact a few of the pike tips poked through my 3/4 inch thick marine grade hardwood shield (I think it was birch plywood). Think of what would have happenned had I not been lucky enough to turn all the spear points and catch the feew I didn't turn away on my shield?

Do we risk excluding many because of the weapons they may have? Or do we risk a few excluding themselves (maybe only me, maybe a lot of people?) over safety concerns?

I know people hate to discuss insurance, but you may want to have one of the coordinators have a look at the event's insurance policy as to what safety requirements need to be in place for a skirmish to take place.

[Rats]

Where are you Mad Dog????!!!!

I was hoping he would chime in and take this over in the manner he always does!!!

Here is a simple bout of advice I got when we started talking steel.... This is simple the basis for safety guidelines "our" crew is working toward.... Do don't no one start moaning!!

As we all know Armor Class offers an excellent hanger, only they are about six months out for waiting list!!!

Here's the advice I got, in the way MD can only tell it.... With humor!!!

ok.....Swords......

in my opinion there are only two types of swords:

hangers (look pretty/authentic/showy)

bangers(rough/battle ready/safe for live action)

problem is...hard toi find a HANGER you can fight with...or a BANGER to show off/authentic!?!?

"Our crew's" RULE NUMBER ONE: NO HANGERS ALLOWED TO FIGHT WITH....PERIOD...OBVIOUS FOR SAFTEY REASONS....perfectly ok for show and tell...balls...around camp...authenticity reasons etc...i like them to....just NO BANGING THEM!!!!!

so the question now is...where can we find good bangers???

starfire makes the best BANGER swords...lifetime guarentee the works...good for daggers (should be 12" at least for banging) light swords (LS 24" , 27" or 32") could work for small swords with a different quillion...but the rapier (i have one) are now $500....i bought mine for $350...not sure how period correct...but perfect for BANGERS....

http://www.starfireswords.com/web-pages/pr...l_orderform.php

possible alternative for rapiers....Stage Steel...again genaric swords....boast battle ready fight groups approved...never seen one up close...not sure...but like the price!

ok.....these types of swords are a generic style....very plain...very strong....but generic.

what rats is lookin for is a small 21-24 inch blade...easily concealed...possible broken /cut down from a longer piece....lookin at starfire available left only two options.....short ridged with quillion...or short roman without quillion....

the "blade" here is whats important....to modify a sword with a quillion to look more the part....we first take off the quillion....then add our modification....a cup.or else....to give it the proper look.....

or start with a blade without a quillion....then add a cup or else..for the proper look....

if ya take away the names here...theres less confusion...rats is not saying that he wants to use a roman sword for a pirate....he wants to use that length of blade for his persona of a pirate....

from now on this sword will be named ..."bob"

"bob" is a nice sized sword for one that would use it this way....with modifications to be more pc...albiet from a distance...it would make a nice banger pirate "bob".....

what we are talkin about here is spending hard erned money.....a lot of money....i would love to have an original...(do have an original cival war sword)....or the perfect replica(i do in cival war)...but i do not dare stage a fight using them the way we can with stage blades....

we have gone thro many versions of blades in the past with actual sword groups...lookin for the perfect blaedds that marryies style with function...sorry...still lookin after 20 years......some are more function...others are more pc....

been to alot of battles where no live blades are allowed...wooden ones only with plastic cups....yikes...but they can not trust real blades in the field....

so......i forgot where i was goin with this.....

in summary......until we find the "perfecrt blades" that we can afford.....we are stuck with HANGERS vs BANGERS.....we will most likely need both....one to show...one to use.....kinda like havin a toy still in original package....

have i made any sense at all?.........go ahead rats...by a "BOB".....then modify it....and wish us all well on our juorney for the perfect blades...

Now after this discussion I contacted Zak from Starfire and he agreed to make a cutlass blade and he now even offers it on his site!! I recieved this blade in less than a week!!!!!

The bottom line is this... I was able to get a simple 25inch blade with a small quillion, which will stand up to anything!!!! I plan to have our LT March customize it and have a simple guard put onto it.... So it will not look like anyone elses!!! A very simple workig blade!!!

My Webpage

Now if folks are interested.... We have been offered a group discount.... Who knows, our LT "might" even be willing to customize for a fee????

My goal with this was to try to get a simple workhorse which will last longer than one skirmish.... She's a tank and has stood up to MD's chopper and also my handaxe (Angry wife incident...)

Hope this helps

[William Brand]

Having spoken to Harry on the subject I'll mention two or three things we have discussed. First, everyone who attends must fill out a registration form to be covered by insurance. No form, no fun. Second, everyone who fires black powder weapons must be approved by the fort. Everyone. Some people have been approved multiple times over the years such as Cascabel and Braze, but everyone should attend the safety meetings. We will have more than one of these to cover all the bases and already we have a few volunteers in each encampment to carefully see to it that none of us get killed...

...except the kind of killing that involves staged deaths and long 'last word' speeches in the arms of a comrade on the field.

"Farewell cruel world!" and all that.

I'm glad that everyone is discussing this here. You can never have enough repetition on the subject of safety. Where safety is concerned it is better to have discusssed it some three dozen times and risk being patronizing rather than miss one important idea or rule.