Consumtion of Rum

[JohnnyTarr]

OK I am wondering here if this is correct. Before Lord Nelson the sailors on board an English vessle were given a pint of rum twice a day? Or was it a half pint served twice a day to equal a pint? After Lord Nelson they started to water it down as rum? It was watered down to 50%?

So as you can see my question comes down to this. Just how much and how often was a sailor expected to drink and be able to do his job?

[JohnnyTarr]

Nobody here knows how much a navy sailor was given to drink in a day?

[HarborMaster]

Rum was first introduced into the Navy in 1655 as a substitute for beer, by 1731, it was in general use. Prior to 1740, the men's daily tot of Rum was a pint a day, that is without water. Before battle, they were issued a double 'tot', and always after victory for a job well done.

The rationing or water had nothing to do with Admiral Nelson .

Over the centuries, the amount of rum changed from time to time. Prior to 1740, Rum was issued to the men neat, that is without water. They received 1/2-pint twice daily. Admiral Vernon , the hero of Portobello and the Commander-in-Chief, West Indies Station was very much concerned with what he called the swinish vice of drunkenness which he believed was caused by the men drinking their daily allowance of rum neat, that is without water. He believed that if the same amount of rum was mixed with water, and then consumed that it would reduce drunkenness and discipline problems for which the punishment could be brutal. Thus he issued his infamous Order to Captains No. 349 on August 21, 1740. His order stated that the daily allowance of rum "be every day mixed with the proportion of a quart of water to a half pint of rum, to be mixed in a scuttled butt kept for that purpose, and to be done upon the deck, and in the presence of the Lieutenant of the Watch who is to take particular care to see that the men are not defrauded in having their full allowance of rum... and let those that are good men receive extra lime juice and sugar that it be made more palatable to them."

The sailors, or "Jack Tars" had affectionately nicknamed Admiral Vernon "Old Grog" from the "grogram" cloak he often wore on the quarter deck. The watered rum gave great offence to the men, and soon they began referring to it contemptuously as "Grog" from the name they'd already provided Admiral Vernon. Thus, true Grog is Pusser's Rum and water with lime juice and sugar.

The ration - or tot - was later increased to two parts water and one part rum, and in 1756, the daily ration of Pusser's Rum was increased to one pint per day, per man. Finally, just before the tot ritual ended in 1970, it was reduced to one-eighth pint.

It was not until July 31st, 1970 that the Admiralty Board abolished the daily issue of Pusser's Rum. This date since then, is referred to "Black Tot Day".

[JohnnyTarr]

Thank you so very much that is the information I was looking for. I just had no idea where to start looking. Is is just me or is a half pint of rum a lot to drink at one time? I mean that is 8 oz right?

[HarborMaster]

Is is just me or is a half pint of rum a lot to drink at one time?

Before battle, they were issued a double 'tot', and always after victory for a job well done.

Actually.., yea...,they were hammered. You got in line..,chugged yours down.., gave the purser back his cup..., who then filled it and gave it to the next in line.

[MorganTyre]

Regarding the origin of the term grog... From wikipedia:

"It is very widely believed that the name "grog" came from the nickname of Admiral Edward "Old Grog" Vernon, but since the word appears in a book written by Daniel Defoe in 1718, well before Admiral Vernon's West Indian career began, and 22 years before his famous order to dilute the rum ration, this cannot be so. Significantly, it is in the 1718 book (The Family Instructor, Part II) a little former slave boy, Toby, from Barbados, who is the character using the word, stating that "the black mans" in the West Indies "make the sugar, make the grog, much great work, much weary work all day long." Since Defoe had trading interests which gave him connections at the great seaports of the day, it is likely that he had heard the word used by similar visitors to Britain from the West Indies. At any rate, the word seems to definitely have entered English from the West Indies - it may have an African origin. It is likely, therefore, that "Old Grog"'s nickname came from the drink, rather than from his cloak and that his family put about the story about the grogram cloak to cover up this minor shame. However, while the word "grog" referring to rum antedates Vernon's rations, the use of the word to refer to diluted rum may post-date him."

[Fox]

Nobody here knows how much a navy sailor was given to drink in a day?

From the Royal Navy victually statutes, 1701:

"Half a pint of brandy in lieu of beer, for at least half the amount of beer on board; or "beverage" wine, but only in case of necessity, as it is less wholesome than beer. And in the West Indies, where brandy is seldom to be had, and where if has for many years been customary to furnish 3/4 of a pint of rum and 1/4 of a pound of sugar a man a day, instead of 1/2 a pint of brandy or a gallon of beer - this custom is to continue."

Even as late as Nelson's day rum was only a substitute for beer.

HM, do you have a period source for stating that the rum was drunk all in one go? I ask because the rum (or other spirit) was a substitute for beer, and thus it would be reasonable to suppose (without evidence to the contrary) that it was issued the same way as beer - and I'd like to see the man that can down a gallon of beer in one go then hand the mug back to the purser, let alone a whole crew of 'em (though that might of course be why the RN ruled the seas for so long!)

[HarborMaster]

I do not have a period refrence...,all of that text above is from Pussers Rum Co. "history". on Pussers Rums website. but of course .......,they want to promote their product !!!! do be careful with wikipedia .,it is submitted by patrons..,so it may or may not be accurate as well ?

[MorganTyre]

In defense of the Wiki reference - that info I've all heard and read before from a variety of sources but that wikipedia article nicely summarized it.

[HarborMaster]

Wikipedia is a free, open content, community-built encyclopedia with thousands of articles on topics from A to Z. Available in dozens of languages.

taken from wikipedia.com itself .

I like wikipedia..., I use it alot...,its an awesome source....,however they themselves take no claim for accuracy is all I am saying. If you need provinance.,you may need to dig deeper on certain subjects .

[Capn_Enigma]

The sailors, or "Jack Tars" had affectionately nicknamed Admiral Vernon "Old Grog" from the "grogram" cloak he often wore on the quarter deck.

That legend is a load of... Bravo Sierra.

Daniel Defoe mentions grog in his book "The Family Instructor" in 1718, some two decades before Vernon's exploits. In that book, he has a slave boy, Toby, state that "black mans" from the West Indies "make the sugar, make the grog, much great work, much weary work all day long."

[Lady Alyx]

....also what was the 'proof' of the alcohol then. I mean I look at Sailor Jerry and it is 90 proof and Captain Morgan is 70 proof, but back then it may have been lesser?

[MadMike]

I'd rather rely on the Oxford English Dictionary than Wikipedia for information. Will research what the OED has on "grog" and post...

Yours, Mike

[MorganTyre]

I'd rather rely on the Oxford English Dictionary than Wikipedia for information. Will research what the OED has on "grog" and post...

Yours, Mike

I feel like I'm getting a little beat up for quoting wikipedia - we all know that it can be a questionable resource but the reason why I quoted it was not for the info itself (which is accurate regarding the term "grog" pre-dating Vernon) but because whoever wrote that particular article summed it all up nicely and I didn't want to re-invent the wheel in coming up with a new way of stating it. All in all the grogham cloak reference being the origin of the term grog smacks of never letting the truth stand in the way of a good story. On the otherhand - if I remember correctly (and I'll have to look to my reference material to verify this) the initial dillution of the rum set off a mutiny fiasco. Does anyone recall this event?

[JohnnyTarr]

Ok I am looking at this as a lot to drink on a daily basis. Even when I was a heavy drinker I did not do it every day. To drink that much and still be able to run up the riggin or run a cannon in and out is quite a feet. This might explan some of the problems of the life expectency of a sailor. But on the other hand free booze and I get paid, sounds like the life for me.

[MorganTyre]

Two things to consider - A lifetime of drinking those large quantities from relatively early childhood through death will develop a bit of a tolerance. Second, someone else brought up the the actual alcohol content of the rum. Anyone know or have any idea what the period alcohol percentage is?

[Capn_Enigma]

A lifetime of drinking those large quantities from relatively early childhood through death will develop a bit of a tolerance.

Aye, and if I ate sugar for my entire life, it would give me a tolerance against cavities.

C'mon now, that's an old wive's tale. Alcohol will damage your system (liver, brains) all the same.

Second, someone else brought up the the actual alcohol content of the rum.

What makes you think that it had a lesser alcoholic content? Impurer, perhaps, due to unrefined filtering methods, but why less alcohol?

[MorganTyre]

C'mon now, that's an old wive's tale. Alcohol will damage your system (liver, brains) all the same.

Nobody said anything about it not causing damage. Of course it'll kill you but these men lived hard short lives in general. I was saying that a lifelong drinker will delevop a tolerance to the inebriating effects allowing them to climb rigging, perform simple tasks, etc. I know this to be true from personal experience.

As for alcohol content - this is heavily affect by the boiling temperature of the mash and quality control couldn't have been then what it is now. If nothing else, look to modern moonshine to see how alcohol content can vary dramatically and that's with a full knowledge and understanding of the science behind the process.