A safe cartridge....

[Patrick Hand]

OK... for my musket (or my new blunderbuss) I fire using cartridges.......

When I did American Civil War reenacting, we didn't use the ramrod,(safety) but loaded from a paper cartradge.... So when I fire my musket, I still do that.... but without using wadding... I just get a "woosh".... with wadding I can get a good (happy) bang....

For some reason people loading pistols never fire thier ramrods... but with a musketl... using the ramrod and wadding is a no-no....

When I make my cartradges, they are a rolled tube of paper with my charge in it..... ( using 80 grains for a .76 cal... )

I'm trying to figure a way of making a rolled cartridge,... then attaching a chunk of florist foam to one end of it..... so I can load my charge.... then load the florist foam..... pack it.... and get a good loud "bang"

I could just use the paper that "was" the cartradge for the wadding.... but then I have to worry about the smouldering paper........ florist foam disintegrated nicely (and safely)

I'm thinking ... maybe make my rolled paper cartradge.... then figuring out a safe glue to hold on a chunk of florist foam to the end of it..... I just can't figure out what kinda glue would be safe.......

Anyone else fireing cartridges figured this out..... or should I experiment with something that works (and is safe...)

[Barbossa II]

Florist foam is the way to go... I use it in my Martini Henry for blanks at events... (Zulu War) However I don't know how to make it work with a paper cartridge. I am afraid glue might melt the foam... depending on the glue of course.

Barbossa II

[Matty Bottles]

Question:

What size chunk of florist foam are you looking for? Also, how will you get it down the barrel without the ramrod?

I'm thinking if you roll your own paper cartridges, couldn't you put the foam inside the cartridge the way the ball would have been (assuming my limited understanding of Civil War munitions is correct...)

[Patrick Hand]

I'm thinking of using a chunk of tubing to cutout the florist foam.... I don't want to put the foam inside the cartridge, because then I still have the problem of smouldering paper, and I'm not sure it the paper wouldn't hold the foam together once fired.....

I was thinking that maybe a cylinder of florist foam, and the cartradge rolled around one end of it.... so most of the foam sticks out one end , and after loading the powder, the foam could be torn off, and loaded. I'd have to use the ramrod to load .... if people firing pistols are using ramrods, then I'll use my ramrod.... if I can't use my ramrod, I can still load the powder only....

The other idea, is to make the cartradge, and somehow attack a slightly rounded chunk of foam to the end... but I still have to figure out what kinda glue to use.....

[Matty Bottles]

What I mean is, if you aren't going to put the paper down the barrel, just roll the foam inside the cartridge. You can tear open the cartridge, pour down the powder, and then squeeze the foam out of the paper and into the barrel. Does that make sense? If you aren't using the paper, then why glue it?

[Capt. Sterling]

What if you shaped the foam to the size of a ball? Make it just big enough to slip down the barrel without using the ramrod... honestly, being a dragoon we never had a problem using ramrods... but see if the foam ball would work enough so you don't have problems with safety officers at events...

[Patrick Hand]

I made 10 cartridges, and will go out tonight and test fire them....

at the bottem of the photo is the 3/4" copper conector I use to cut-out the florist foam.... I just pushed it through a chunk of foam, and other than the very bottem being slightly ragged, the tubes come out ok....

In the middle is the wood former and a foam cylinder on top of the cartridge paper....

And at the top is a finished cartridge, loaded with 70 grains of FF black Powder. I used a short piece of twine to cinch the foam into the end of the paper, so no powder will fall out....

I figure that I'll tear the cartridge open, and pour the powder down the barrel, then tear off the foam, and ram that in....

[Hawkyns]

Sounds to me like you are not using enough powder for the blank. Our standard battle cartridge is 100 grains of FF for a .62 musket. I generally figure 150% of bore size in grains. Some of ours even use FFF. We never ram and we never wad, but we never have a problem with getting a good solid crack. Pour the cartridge, give the butt a good solid thump to settle it and keep your muzzle up so it doesn't settle back down the bore.

Hawkyns

[Cascabel]

Aye, I agree fully with ye Hawkyns. I never use a wad unless I need to do a scene where I have to carry a loaded pistol on my belt in order to fire when needed, and then it is just enough to keep the powder from spilling out and is not particularly tight.

Most often we are fireing immediately after loading, so all you need to do is not lower the muzzle below horizontal, and the powder stays put against the breech. There is the added benefit of being able to unload by simply dumping out the powder to render the gun safe in the event of a failure to fire. With a sufficiency of powder, no wad is needed at all. A blank load is normally more than a live load anyhow.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Patrick Hand]

I fired the cartridges, and am happy with how they worked....they load easily, and I got a nice loud report from them.

I could fire more powder (what we called "buck and Ball"...) or use the florist foam cartradges.... both work...

Maybe I'll fire at a chunk of cardboard from about 5 to 10 feet away using some "more Powder" and some "wadded" cartridges, and see what the cardboard looks like afterwards....

Right now, I'm not sure if using more powder to get a good bang is safer (other than not using the ramrod to load it...(and that is something to think about...)) But I won't know untill I play with it some more......

[Patrick Hand]

After firing again this afternoon.... I've come to the conclusion.....

Firing a larger powder charge does make a good report.... and is safer.... I don't have to use a ramrod to load.....

my bitch is ........ why are only long guns and blunderbusses the ones that can fire thier ramrods.......

pistols never do....?

Why if it "frouned apon" for me with a long gun or buss to load with a ramrod..... but it's common for those firing pistols.....?

[Cascabel]

I have seen several pistol ramrods flying through the air at events. Whenever I am appointed "safety officer" at events, I always instruct about not using wadding and ramrods.

Most folks have never been taught about safe firing procedures, so they don't know any better. There is a lot of bad information passed around out there.....

>>>>> Cascabel

[blackjohn]

From my point of view standard operating procedure is to not ram down paper when recreating a battle. I'm not sure what is happening these days on the RevWar scene, but at least one site required that we keep our rammers in our tents when taking the field.

[blackjohn]

my bitch is ........ why are only long guns and blunderbusses the ones that can fire thier ramrods.......

pistols never do....?

Why if it "frouned apon" for me with a long gun or buss to load with a ramrod..... but it's common for those firing pistols.....?

I can't speak for your personal experiences... but if you are addressing Civil War (as I believed was mentioned in your initial post) could it be that Civil Wars pistols are just so darned different? I'm thinking integral loading arm, multi-chambered, capped off with crisco type of situations. That's a far cry from a single shot flintlock.

At our pirate events, people with pistols follow the same guidelines as those carrying longarms.

[Patrick Hand]

When I was doing Civil War reenacting, revolvers were loaded befor the battles, but only officers and calvery used them. Infantry loaded just powder without using the ramrod.

I figure the safest cartridge is using only powder and no ramrod.

At a lot of California events, pistols are loaded using a ramrod.....(and sometimes directly from a flask ! )

"bitch" was the wrong word.... I should have typed "concern".... When I'm loading my musket or buss, I can't fire my ramrod, because I wont be using it.... but I don't know about the guy firing a pistol that loaded with a ramrod....

Maybe we need a set of standardized gun handling rules, so if I go to PiP , Hampton, or the Northern California Pyrate Festival, there is some consistancy with black powder guns. Right now they are a mix of "the Bragade of the American Revolution", "Civil War" and some guy that fired at a Renn Faire.......

[William Brand]

Maybe we need a set of standardized gun handling rules, so if I go to PiP , Hampton, or the Northern California Pyrate Festival, there is some consistancy with black powder guns. Right now they are a mix of "the Bragade of the American Revolution", "Civil War" and some guy that fired at a Renn Faire.......

I am suddenly reminded of the fellow at PIP 2005 that kept loading the cannon from the front instead of the side. He made the frustrated cannoners very nervous.

[Fox]

Here's an idea that we use over here quite a bit. It works for muskets and pistols, but wouldn't for a blunderbuss.

Take your cartridge, bite off the top, keep the paper between your teeth, pour the powder down, place in the wad, ram home, replace your ramrod, take the paper out from your teeth and tuck it in the muzzel.

It's almost impossible to forget the bit of paper between your teeth, especially if you've nipped a bit of powder with it, so there's virtually no chance of leaving your ramrod down the spout. The paper tucked in the muzzel has the added use when firing volleys with other shooters that it's a very obvious sign of a misfire.

[Capt. Sterling]

Yes must agree with Blackjohn, at Rev War events back in the heyday, ramrods were to remain in camp...

we were the only ones, being dragoons that were allowed to ram and use wadding BUT only on the first round... this is because our pistols were carried in pistol buckets, muzzle down, and without wadding the power just ran out the end of the barrel.. and all we used for wadding was the rest of the paper cartridge. After our first shot, we just reloaded and fired like everyone else..simple really.

back at camp after a battle ramrods were then used by safety officers to clear each barrel, making sure there was no forgotten anything in anyone's barrel be it pistol or musket.