Jack Roberts Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 So I'm sitting at home bored to tears and looking at fabrics online. I got to looking at some silk fabrics and was wondering; What would be the most historically accurate silk to use? Any thought?
Black Syren Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 Im sure Kass has some info on her site but cannot find the link right off..But verymerryseamstress has some info on silks..not sure if it will help much... http://www.verymerryseamstress.com/fabrics.htm http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Dara286/trident01-11.png If you got a dream chase it, cause a dream won't chase you back...(Cody Johnson Till you Can't)
Capt. Sterling Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 According to Montgomery's Textiles in America Silk Cloth woven from the shiny, smooth filaments reeled from cocoons, especially those produced by the silkworm Bombyx mori. A wide variety of imported raw silks and silk goods are listed in the London 1660 Book of Rates: Bridges [burges} silk, Ferret or Floret silke, Fillozell or Paris silke, Grando. Silke Black & colours. Naples. Silke, black & colours Organzine, Pole & Spanish, Raw China, Raw Silke, short and long, Raw Morea, Satin Silke, Sleave Silke, Silke Nubbs or Husks, Throwne Silke. Page 348 Bridges Satin: Satins de Bruges made of silk and linen are included in a long list of mixed goods such as brocatelle. Made in satin weave, the linen weft was covered by the closely spaced silk warps. It was often striped and used for furnishing and wall hangings. Probably the same as Imberline, "The import or raw silk to the southern part of the Low Countries [after 1498] is said to have given rise to the manufacture of half-silks called satin de Bruges." page 176 Brocatelle: French mixture fabric as "a kind of stuff proper to make hangings, & other furniture. A slight stuff made with cotton, or coarse silk, in imitation of brocadoes. There are some all of silk, & others all of wool." page 179 Ferret Silk: "Ignorantly, or improperly called spun silk, and sold as such in manufacture, is much inferior to spun silk, though much smoother; it is made from burs, and the bags the worms die in, it is fine and soft, has a flat appearance like cotton, and wears but very indifferently. Ferret tape and ferreting (tapes ribbons or bindings) may have been made from this poor grade raw silk. page 237 Florence: A lightweight taffeta dress silk. Joubert describes both batavia and florence taffeta. "Thrie yards of sky colloured florence Cesnutt [sarcenet]" and "tuo yards of Yallow florence Cessnutt" were intventoried in the Wardrobe Room at Ham House in 1677. page 238 Your best bet over here for silk and not wanting to pay and arm and a leg would be silk taffeta... dupioni (sp) from what I have been told is not period correct but a nineteenth century product... and way too nubby for silk of the GAoP... Gentleman of Fortune's purple coat is silk grosgrain which, again, as of yet, I have not found in the US except for pretty steep prices... if you only need enough for say a waistcoat front then it wouldn't be too bad, but for a gown or full weskit, coat or suit... could be expensive. a few samples of bizzare silks (Fantasy and exotic patterns often combining an Oriental and baroque motifs): 1708 silk Mantua 1700-1730 French silk French silk 1680-1690 French 1710 "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Red Cat Jenny Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 OOh the yellow French silk is pretty... I have been curious..how and where linen was made at the time? Obviously it was widely available..but I wonder how different it appeared from the modern weave we buy today in fabric stores? Naturally also, if its possible to acquire something so authentic? Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time...
Jack Roberts Posted July 1, 2007 Author Posted July 1, 2007 Try here Class Act Fabrics\ She seems to know what see is talking about. Although I haven't researched her claims. Some really nice fabrics to be had from there. It seems a little "mom & pop" in the way they operate. I bought some fabric from there and i used it for my wifes mantua. I will definitely be buying from there again. Very cool and different stuff to be found.
Kathyrn Ramsey Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Your best bet though is to stay away from the silks with the nubs, commonly duponi. The nubs would be considered flaws and not be used. At least on the high end court style kit.
Red Cat Jenny Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Thanks Amanjiria..I will most definately check this one out. I appreciate your reccomendation after a purchase. That always helps. Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time...
sirhenrymorgan Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 What is said to be one of the definitive works on textiles comes out again (it was first published in 1984) on July 23... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...KX0DER&v=glance It covers textiles in the Americas from 1650 through 1870 by the late Florence M. Montgomery who was assistant curator of textiles at the Winterthur Museum. I've already pre-ordered our copy, respectively. -- Sir Henry "Land only holds promise if men at sea have the courage to fight for it." - Sir Henry
Red Cat Jenny Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Again..thanks ..will order as well I watched the Revolution on History over the weekend and fell for the yellow brocade curtains in Mt. Vernon. Niice.. I do love fabric Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time...
Jack Roberts Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 Yes Sir Morgan, I will be buying this book. Is it wrong for a guy to love fabric to much?
Gentleman of Fortune Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Is it wrong for a guy to love fabric to much? I hope not... I am a fabric whore myself! To answer the original question though... What would be the most historically accurate silk to use? Thats tough, because there are lots of different silk styles that would be great for our period. Its kind of like What car best exemplifies "the 1960s" lots to choose from and matter of preference. Silk was a luxury fabric back then, but my answer would be a "bizarre" pattern silk (see Cptn Sterlings pictures in the post above). Reason: It was only produced during the golden age of Piracy. If I recall correctly it comes in the 1680s and is gone by the early 1720s. There is a French company that is making reproduction fabric, but when I contacted them, it was really bloody expensive like $400 a meter or more http://www.e-luxus-fabrics.com/soie_us/index.htm GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
Cheeky Actress Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Her?!! I am sure the good captain will just love to hear that!!! Oh Johnny you'll never live this one down!!! Serves you right for dressing so...so upper class! Member of "The Forsaken"
Jack Roberts Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 Would they also have had plain silk? (Plain being solid color.) I did find out that duponi silk is wrong. That helps point me in the right direction. I guess I should have something like, What kinda of silks are available today that are usable for a GoAP outfit. What silks are to be avoided. I love that site. Makes me drool everytime, until I look at the price.
Capt. Sterling Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 They had the silk taffeta and yes they had solids... just don't get the shocking iridescent stuff... or you'll glow in the dark "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Cheeky Actress Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Amanjiria, I have had wonderful luck in the decor section of JoAnn Fabrics. If you look, you will find some very nice 56" to 60" bolts of silks on sale. I found some lovely stuff for only $9.00 a yard and it wasn't duponi (nubs). Member of "The Forsaken"
Jack Roberts Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 Ahhh yes the decor section. One must not limit one's self. So would velvet silk be accurate? I just happen to find some recently, not sure how much though. Also they have linen velvet. Fishman Fabrics I'm going to try and see the fabrics in person tomorrow. I'll bring my camera.
michaelsbagley Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Fishman FabricsI'm going to try and see the fabrics in person tomorrow. I'll bring my camera. It's a shame they do not have any pricing on their web site. They look like they have a fantastic selection of fabrics and colours, but no pricing or obvious online ordering mechanism kind of rules them out for me.
Cheeky Actress Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Oh Fishman Fabrics! Yes, right in Chicago and while you're there Amanjiria, don't forget Vouge! and as for the decor section, just be careful when picking out your silk fabric. They love to put the poly with the real silk! One last thing...the silk should not be shiny. The texture should be a soft, flat finish. Member of "The Forsaken"
Capt. Sterling Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Okay... I am going out, way out on a limb here... not having an actual clue as to the use of Silk Velvet ( yes they had it) for making a woman's gown... LATE 18th century as in American Rev. War... velvet is a MAN's fabric and was not used in women's dresses except MAYBE as a trim, or in a masculine styled riding habit.. I have no evidence if this was true during the GAoP, but I have not come across it in women's dresses as of yet... and most sorry to disagree with you Cheeky, but all the real silk velvets I have seen and handled are really quite shiny (not flat like cotton velvets)... as matter of fact rayon velvet pretty much passes in appearance to a good silk velvet... and if I recall a conversation with Kass once correctly, no one is truly manufacturing 100% silk velvet now a days, tis always a blend of some kind.. The black silk velvet I have on the cuffs of the brown coat I have had for ...ahem... decades.... now I feel old...**sigh** "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Cheeky Actress Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 ....and most sorry to disagree with you Cheeky, but all the real silk velvets I have seen and handled are really quite shiny (not flat like cotton velvets)...Cheeky Smiles...softly. Aye, Dearie. Though, I do agree with you about the silk velvet I was referring to the 100 percent silk decor stuffs. Also, to the touch...silk has a smooth, soft texture that, unlike many synthetic fibers, is not slippery. Member of "The Forsaken"
Capt. Sterling Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 But what makes you think that the silks were flat back in the GAoP? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Jack Roberts Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 I'm not sure if about Fishman's claims but they say it 100% silk. A little off topic but what about the linen velvet? It makes sense that they would have had it. They had linen. Oh if I get any, although I'm sure its expensive as "all get out", it'll be for me.
Capt. Sterling Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 another fabric whore.... snigger... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I'm not sure if about Fishman's claims but they say it 100% silk. Hmmm where do you see that... this is what the swatch list claims: B-16 Luxury Silk Velvet Contents : 12% Silk 82% Rayon "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Jack Roberts Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 (with an maniacal laugh) Yes, yess, I love fabrics..... I think that part of what keeps me coming back for more.
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