Tha average FRENCH seaman...

[Matty Bottles]

I've searched for this, but can't find much info on it.

Now, we are lucky enough to have the inventories of a 1699 slop shop, as well as the guidelines of various English slop contracts - but is there any equivalent info for french seamen?

We know, for example, that more or less France dictated the high-fashion of Europe at this time (this is a simplification, I know.) And the day-to-day wear that I have seen in Paris Street Cries are not significantly different than those of English tradesmen, as far as I can tell in my limited knowledge.

But what of the (somewhat) specialized gear of the sailor? Logic dictates that it would be very similar to that of their british counterparts, if the assumptions I've made are true. However, is there EVIDENCE of this?

The ASC indicates colors and fabrics. Does anyone know of any similar documentation regarding French sailors?

And if anyone takes issue with any of the claims or assumptions I've made here, please correct me by all means. I only ask that you be thorough, and provide me with enough information to track down the evidence myself.

EDIT: Let me say that evidence for certain items does exist, if I interpret it correctly. Leloir (sp?) has patterns for a sleeved waistcoat, for example. I am thinking of items like sailors' smocks and trousers, and if color or fabric standards existed for the French navy before the neglect of Phillippe d'Orleans.

EDIT: If such a navy even existed, as we know it. Apparently John Cary commented that the French have no proper fleet, but rely alomst exclusively on privateers. Unfortunately, I can find no date for that quote yet.

[Matty Bottles]

In light of this previous quote from Foxe, regarding the percentages of mariners in the Carribean by nationality, according to David Cordingly:

35% were English

25% colonial Americans

20% West Indian (mostly from Jamaica and Barbados)

10% Scottish

8% Welsh

2% Dutch, Swedish, Spanish, and French.

Which means that this question is probably not worth the effort it would take to find the answer. However, is someone still has their heart set on an impression of a French mariner, do try to get what evidence there is. I have a lead on some interesting books about French privateers of the era, and I'll request those from my library in a few days.

[theM.A.dDogge]

now i believe i read this somewhere...that durring census taken durring the GAoP...that the irish,scottish, welsh...were thought of as english...and there fore the percentages may be a bit askewed....but trying to remember where i read that...so don't quote me...till i can find that quote....where the hell did i put that book?

[Matty Bottles]

Here's an interesting-looking book I found, after searching for Rene Chartrand on google. Someone on Pirate Brethren mentioned him.

Canadian Military Heritage 1000-1754

[michaelsbagley]

The above posted stats seem very much in contrast with the feeling of cultural ratios that seemed to exist in the Buccaneer era (a feeling derived from my currently reading the Esquemeling book). The stats also seem in strong contrast to the actual populations of peoples (citizens) of the Carribean of the time. Now I know 30 to 60 years can make a sizable difference, but that much of a difference? Did the English (British) really hold that much of a superiority of the seas during that era in the Carribean?

I don't want to question the research of such a reknowned expert on the subject, but the numbers seem a bit more than just skewed to me, they seem down right improbable.

Are the stats even Cordingly's work, or is Cordingly citing an English (British) census of the English (British) colonies in the Carribean (which the other nationalities would not factor much into at all, and make these stats more logical).... Sorry but the above cited stats are firing off a lot of red flags in my mind, and rasing more questions than answers. My copy of Cordingly's book is at home and my curiosity is getting the better of me if there is anyone out there that has a copy on hand or knnows off by heart....

[Matty Bottles]

That's a good point - what happened to all those Spaniards? What happened to all those Frenchmen? They still had interests in the area, right? Spain in Cuba and France in Louisiana, for example. And the Dutch had interests in the Virgin Islands, right? But they together made up less than 2% of mariners?

[Fox]

I believe the list I quoted comes from one of Cordingly's papers rather than UTBF and is specifically related to pirates operating in the Caribbean 1715-1725.

There were plenty of Spanish seamen (and French) they just tended to be sailing on the victim vessels

I'm not convinced of the total accuracy of the figures either, but they don't seem too unreasonable as stats of pirates.

[Matty Bottles]

Thank you. Didn't mean to take you out of context or misquote you.

The e-book by Rene Chartrand is interesting, if in frustrating black and white. However, in the whole book, there is about five pages about the navy proper, with one little picture attributed to Alfred de Marbot, who I believed lived in the middle 19th century. Sailors' uniforms are not discussed, although marines are discussed at length.

What about the number of French privateers? I know they were active in the Northeastern coast of North America, even if it was the same three or four ships raiding British trade...