Weevils in the bread

[Maggie Crowe]

How prevalent were weevils in the bread, really? Was it more from lack of care in the galley? or was it unavoidable?

I apologize if this seems an inane question, it's one of those things I think about late at night when I can't sleep.

[Jib]

Weevils are mentioned in the hard tack of the Civil War also. I've also heard of black headed flies

[Maggie Crowe]

I know they exist, I've had them infest my flour when I don't have it packaged away nice and airtight. I just wondered if they were an inevitable part of life at sea, and just how bad were they?

[The Doctor]

Here's a tip: when you bring your flour home from the grocer's, pop it in the freezer for 24 hours or so. That will freeze the weevil eggs and kill them. Sorry for the temporal intrusion.

[Maggie Crowe]

Oh, hey, that IS a good tip, thanks :)

[Carlislekid]

Weevils were sooo bad, RN sailors preffered to eat biscuits in the dark so they would not have to see what they were eating. Only thing worse than the biscuits was the slimey green beef or the fouled water.

[Silkie McDonough]

As Maggie AND Jack pointed out ...more or less ...they are in the flour. One would think that baking the flour would kill them. I guess that since things were not airtight they could get in after the baking.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Ship's biscuit used by the navy or bought for merchant vessels often sat in storage for months or even years before being placed aboard ship, plenty of time for lots of nasty things to get into them. I'd think a pirate ship would have a better chance of shipping fresh-baked biscuit and probably suffered less from the problem. Not that it was much of a health hazard, considering how lethal things like meat could be. Bugs are distasteful but as anyone who's ever taken a military survival course knows, they're a good source of protein and fat. But as said above, best eaten in the dark.

[Maggie Crowe]

Ship's biscuit used by the navy or bought for merchant vessels often sat in storage for months or even years before being placed aboard ship, plenty of time for lots of nasty things to get into them.

Thanks, that's actually what I wondered ... if it was inevitable, or if they could avoid it if they chose. Now it's got me wondering if cooking was a daily occurrance, or weekly, or what. Biscuits aren't difficult to make, so I wonder why it wasn't done on, at the least, a weekly basis.

I'm wondering if 'ship's cook' was actually a position, or the duty of whomever happened to be handy at the time.

I've got lots of 'wonders'

[Silkie McDonough]

Some voyages took years didn't they? How long were they at sea before making port again?

[Jib]

Gross as it is they most likely wouldn't hurt you if you ate them.

[Littleneckhalfshell]

("Biscuits aren't difficult to make, so I wonder why it wasn't done on, at the least, a weekly basis.")

you are forgeting one important thing, ovens of the period were large and heavy brick structures, not something that you usually have aboard ship. Have a galley fire, by itself was a somewhat risky proceedure, since ships were made of wood, canvas, and tar. (makes a really good fire) The 'ship's biscuit' or 'hard tack' was the MRE of the period. Ships near port would have 'soft tack' or what we recognize as bread, but the longer the trip, you get the idea, it only lasts so long.

Some ships and crews were out for long periods of time, between being able to get more supplies.

Notably, Navy ships, and whalers, but It seems to me that many, maybe most Pirate vessels, were not all that long out of port, and often being smaller shallower draft vessels could put in at more places to re-supply. I would think that 'hard tack' would be kind of low on the list for food, if you could get better, and where it might be 'hard tack' and 'salt horse' for the British Tar's, I would be thinking of getting a different capt'n if he expected me to live on that.

The Buccaneer, was after all one of the original people to bar-be-que

[Carlislekid]

Like today, much of the economy of 18thcentury England depended on supplying the military. There were bakeries that baked hundreds of tons of ships biscuit for the RN, many of the casks (like our old K rats) were years old before they were utilized. Cooking on board was limited with the specialty dish reserved for special occasions was duff, made from oatmeal and had raisins if they cook were lucky to have saved some.

Baking was taboo as FIRE was the enemy of a sailing vessel. IN bad weather most Captains ordered the cook stove fires put out.

[Maggie Crowe]

Thanks much for that response, Carlislekid. I was having a hard time reconciling the fact that fire was a ship's worst enemy, and the idea of 'ship's cook'. Then it seemed to me that if there was a 'ship's cook', I had to wonder why they weren't cooking more often to avoid those weevils.

Does anyone have a book or reliable website I could read about such things? I would certainly appreciate it.

[John Maddox Roberts]

Whaling ships must've been nerve-wracking places to work. They had big stoves on deck to heat the try-pots for rendering oil from whale blubber. So you're on a wooden ship with big fires burning, a cargo consisting entirely of lamp-oil and loads of firewood in the hold.

[Carlislekid]

TO MAGGIE:

Try Wooden World...Life in the Georgian Navy, by N.A.M. Rodgers

or Between the devil and the Deep Blue sea (Author I can't remenber)

[Littleneckhalfshell]

""Whaling ships must've been nerve-wracking places to work. They had big stoves on deck to heat the try-pots for rendering oil from whale blubber. So you're on a wooden ship with big fires burning, a cargo consisting entirely of lamp-oil and loads of firewood in the hold.""

Actually, not that much firewood, from what I understand from what they said at Mystic Seaport, after the first 'books' of blubber were tryed out, what was left over, something sort of like fried pork skins was then fed to the fire. The process was somewhat self perpetuating, with the whales remains fueling the rendering of the oil out of the blubber.

Also, there is a substantial brick platform and wall where the two try-pots are located. I would guess every precaution was taken, but I see your point, all that flamable oil, plus the normal combustables on a wooden sailing ship, tar, tarred rope, sails, etc... Boy would that make a bonfire! a lot bigger fire than Capt' Jack Sparrow's lost rum in the first POC movie.

[Jib]

I seem to remember someone on these forums (maybe GOF) had a tool for making Hard Tack. Someone else mentioned that it was half bad but he liked to eat nuts. Bread=nuts. I'd say that's bad!

[Carlislekid]

Ship's biscuits are round, not square like army bread. I use whole wheat flour to make mine. I use a round cookie cutter or jasr to make the shape, pierce with a fork...

[Maggie Crowe]

TO MAGGIE:

Try Wooden World...Life in the Georgian Navy, by N.A.M. Rodgers

or Between the devil and the Deep Blue sea (Author I can't remenber)

Thank you, sir! I had been looking at the second, so I think I'll pick that one up for sure.

[John Maddox Roberts]

quote: "...what was left over, something like fried pork skins..."

Whale cracklins, mmmmmm! Bet they'd go good with beer.

[Carlislekid]

:angry: Whale cracklins anf GROG. Enough Grog ya won't care what yer eatin