JoshuaRed Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Too funny -- even hundreds of years after the GAOP, Spain still can't stand to see anyone else with their gold! Apparently everyone got the "Finders Keepers" memo except them.... BBC News -- Spain To Sue Over Treasure Find
Iron Bess Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Great subject... but it should be over in the Capt. Twill thread. More *Historical* based. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman!
Capn_Enigma Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Too funny -- even hundreds of years after the GAOP, Spain still can't stand to see anyone else with their gold! Apparently everyone got the "Finders Keepers" memo except them.... BBC News -- Spain To Sue Over Treasure Find Perhaps you shoulda read the article you posted: However, there have also been rumours that it was found off Spain. Spanish media have reported that Odyssey Marine Exploration vessels had been seen with flags denoting they were undertaking marine research in Spanish waters in recent months. If the wreck was in Spanish waters, it does of course belong to Spain. Too funny, indeed. "The floggings will continue until morale improves!"
HarborMaster Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 I wonder which country spain used as slaves .,to rape and rob to get this gold. Spain loves treasure even more than I..., They are pirates. I am not Lost .,I am Exploring. "If you give a man a fire, he will be warm for a night, if you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life!"
Bilgemunky Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 As an OMI stockholder, I take great pleasure in saying that I have financial interests that have been accused of plundering by the government of Spain. I AM BILGEMUNKY
JoshuaRed Posted May 31, 2007 Author Posted May 31, 2007 Perhaps you shoulda read the article you posted:QUOTE However, there have also been rumours that it was found off Spain. QUOTE Spanish media have reported that Odyssey Marine Exploration vessels had been seen with flags denoting they were undertaking marine research in Spanish waters in recent months. If the wreck was in Spanish waters, it does of course belong to Spain. C'mon...Why would I post something without reading it? It's only RUMOURED to be off Spain. I just thought it was a fun little twist in this developing saga...
jessie k. Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 This of course only makes me more curious to know where it came from, and what they believe is the identity of the ship! "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear, and life stands explained." --Mark Twain
Story Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 A Spanish court has issued a warrant for the capture and search of two American exploration ships suspected of removing sunken treasure from Spanish waters. Who controls the waters around Gibraltar The ships, belonging to Odyssey Marine Exploration, which is based in Florida, are docked in Gibraltar and cannot leave because Spain controls the waters surrounding the British enclave. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...07/wship107.xml Uppity Madrid poofters, obviously they'll need a broadside or three of 18 pound shot. Dances for nickels.
Story Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Spain releases US treasure-hunt ship A US treasure-hunting ship intercepted and searched by Spanish police investigating a mysterious haul of riches has been cleared to leave port. The Ocean Alert is owned by a company in Miami which recently raised a record haul of silver coins from a shipwreck. Spanish authorities suspect the discovery might have been made in their territorial waters. But Gibraltar disputes the claim, saying the ship had been boarded in international waters. The Ocean Alert was stopped and boarded by Spanish police after leaving the British colony last Thursday. It was then escorted to the Spanish port of Algeciras, where crew members were searched and computer equipment confiscated. Acting on the orders of a judge, the police were hoping to pinpoint the location of a shipwreck which in May yielded half a million silver coins, worth $500m (£244m). Diplomatic dispute The salvage company has refused to say where it made the haul - which was promptly transported to the United States. Initial speculation held that it was found off the coast of Cornwall in south-west England. But the BBC's Steve Kingstone in Madrid says some politicians there suspect the mysterious wreck is of Spanish origin, or was found in Spanish territorial waters. Neither the police nor the vessel's American owners - Odyssey Marine Exploration - will confirm what, if anything, was found during the Spanish search. But the answer is probably very little, our correspondent says. The American crew of the Ocean Alert were expecting to be stopped and even had a lawyer on board, he says. It is understood that some confiscated items, including computer hard drives, have yet to be returned. . The dispute became a three-way diplomatic incident when Britain complained to the Spanish foreign ministry, arguing that Madrid did not have the right under shipping laws to intercept a vessel in international waters. For now, the Ocean Alert remains in Algeciras and is expected to leave port after completing routine paperwork. Spain has launched legal action over the treasure and the wreck. But some experts believe it to be the Merchant Royal, an English ship carrying stolen Spanish treasure which sank in 1641. US coin expert Dr Lane Brunner has said there is evidence the shipwreck was found off England's Cornish coast. Odyssey has kept the location of its find secret, citing security and legal reasons. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6903807.stm Dances for nickels.
Capn_Enigma Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 U.S. ship held in $500M booty row Spain has again seized an American treasure-hunting ship over a dispute with its owners over who has rights to millions of dollars worth of booty recovered from the sea, officials said. Spain seized the "Odyssey Explorer" -- owned by Odyssey Marine Exploration based Tampa, Florida -- as it sailed out of port in the British colony of Gibraltar on Tuesday. More here. "The floggings will continue until morale improves!"
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 ODYSSEY MARINE are TRULY Pyrates if they did get it out from under the ol' Spaniards noses! We should all be very proud of them and... WHY HAVEN'T THEY BEEN INVITED TO TH" PUB!?! Bo
Salty Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 bluidy thieves Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
Desert Pyrate Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Apparently everyone got the "Finders Keepers" memo except them.... The "Finders Keepers" rule causes big problems for archaeologists. When someone plunders a wreck - and almost certainly this is what Odyssey is doing - they do not record the provenience of the material. In that case, there is *much* less archaeological value to the artifacts than there could have been. Even salvors who say they do archaeological work very very rarely publish their findings in a journal. Archaeological sites are a non-renewable resource. We don't say that "finders keepers" should be the rule with air, water, or trees... why should it be the case with cultural resources? Don't buy from salvors. Don't buy archaeological artifacts period.
JoshuaRed Posted October 18, 2007 Author Posted October 18, 2007 The "Finders Keepers" rule causes big problems for archaeologists. Well if it's THAT important to the arkies why didn't they go looking for it first? Kidding. KIDDING... No, I don't like the idea of priceless history being auctioned off piecemeal either. Not at all. However I also feel the pain of these explorer/salvage co's. who do all the years of research and legwork to find a wreck only to have states, governments or countries yank it away. And yet all too often none of those powers that be ever lifted a finger or spent a dime to locate those "priceless national treasures" themselves. They just sit around waiting for someone else to do it, then suddenly leap into action to enforce the laws. Whatever. All I can really hope is that more private marine salvage co's will follow Barry Clifford's lead and keep excavated wreck collections whole and intact, like the Whydah.
Desert Pyrate Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 More frequently, it's the whole money aspect. There are lots of archaeological sites that are just waiting to be done, but for lack of funding. So then a salvor comes along, takes it, and sells it off, because they can afford to. Sucks. And while Clifford's exhibit on Whydah is neat in that it lets people see the artifacts, a nice term for the excavation thereof is "indelicate". Whydah is sort of an interesting case in that the conservation exhibit is very cool and the actual recovery/site plan was so uncool. (disclaimer here, I haven't actually seen the Whydah exhibit. I'm going by Capelotti's review in Public Historian about the Boston version. I know nothing about the Tampa version. That said, the recovery of the artifacts was still... "indelicate".)
callenish gunner Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Hell the Spanish are trying to steal the gold twice!!! Once from the Incas or Aztecs or other Native Americans and now from salvage/explorers who have rediscovered it on the bottom of the ocean .....once thieves always thieves i guess
Cascabel Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 It must always be kept in mind that NONE of these recoveries would be made at all without some heavy funding from investors. Investors will not provide funding without a reasonable expectation of a return on their investment, and their return comes from the sale of artifacts. Investors usually don't support pure archaelogical endeavors. Just some cold, hard facts of life, Boys and Girls.... However, I believe proper documentation should be done if practical, (which it often isn't due to circumstances of depth, condition of the site etc.), and a certain percentage of the "goodies" should be reserved for display in museums. If government entities did not get so greedy about things that they made no effort to discover or recover, perhaps the secrecy would not be so much of a problem. >>>> Cascabel
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Hmmm... I thought we was supposed ta be PYRATES kiddies. Condemning these fellers for doin what they do fer a livin? Quite the paradox. Seems that governments have enough money lying about to start wars and comit ethnic cleansing and genocide, but when it comes to lost treasure and research there is none to be had. Serves the dumb bastards right if it gets lost to the treasure hunters. I say they either put up the funds to get there first or suffer the loss without whimpering about it. Besides... how much do you think all the legal wrangling is going to cost the Spanish government? I'll bet it will be enough to have covered alot of the research that could have gone inot the academic study of the site. You snooze- you lose. Bo
Graydog Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 The American crew of the Ocean Alert were expecting to be stopped and even had a lawyer on board, he says. Piracy in the 21st Century: Captain, "Mr. Gibbon I see a fat slow Spaniard, I do." Gibbon, "That be true Cap'n" Captain, "Hoist the Jolly Roger and uncase the lawyer. Give'em a writ dead amidships!" Lawyer, "Under sub provision three of International Law, the afore mentioned Spaniard is here-by ordered to cease and desist under penalty of....." Gibbon, "That did er! She be dead in the water and lower'in her colors!" Captain, "Grapple her lads! Boarders away!" Lawyer, "Captain, make sure the men have all signed releases, boarding a ship at sea is highly hazardous and there are certain liabilities to be considered." Captain, "Gibbon you fool! Recase that dang blasted Lawyer before I heave him over the side!" Gibbon "Aye Captain." Ok, kidding aside, when I did a tour with NATO in Bosnia in 2000 we had to raid an illegal Bosnian Serb TV station. The raid went like this; the perimeter was surrounded with two (2) mechanized infantry companies. We had a platoon of tanks providing covering fire from an opposing ridged line. There were Apache gunships on call if the tanks couldn’t handle the situation as it developed. If need be further air support from fast movers was possible. The raid started and our assault track roared to the front door of the TV station. It dropped its ramp and a squad of soldiers providing security piled out. Then with everything in place from the back of the track our Lawyer walked out and served a cease and desist order on the operator of the TV station. Sad but true, our primary weapon was actually a lawyer! Their having a lawyer on board was actually a pretty good idea IMO, but what a world we have today. -Greydog Why am I sharing my opinion? Because I am a special snowflake who has an opinion of such import that it must be shared and because people really care what I think!
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 Imagine a tall-ship rigged with legal papers and 72 lawyers on the gun decks! Greydog... I can't stop laughing! How true it is! Bo
Capn_Enigma Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Imagine a tall-ship rigged with legal papers and 72 lawyers on the gun decks! Modifications of this plot are almost 25 years old: The Crimson Permanent Assurance by Monty Python. "The floggings will continue until morale improves!"
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Capt. Enigma... I had almost passed that from my memory! Jeez! I used to sneak my black&white portable Tv into the closet at 11:00 p.m. every monday night to watch Monty Python on PBS! Thanks for that! Still laughing! Bo
Story Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Mar 6, 6:52 PM EST Explorers May Have to ID Shipwreck Find By MITCH STACY Associated Press Writer http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SHI...LTAM&SECTION=US TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- Deep-sea explorers who found a shipwreck last year yielding about $500 million in treasure might be forced to provide Spain their "best available hypothesis" on the ship's identity, a judge said Thursday. An attorney for the Spanish government has complained that Odyssey Marine Exploration of Tampa has not complied with a judge's order to hand over enough information to determine if Spain has a claim to the 17 tons of colonial era coins salvaged from the wreck last year. U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday wrote in his ruling that if Odyssey doesn't fully satisfy the order to hand over details of the wreck, the company will be forced to tell Spain the name of the ship the company suspects it has found. Dances for nickels.
Story Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 $140 bn, eh? What's the number for the 6th Fleet HQ? http://www.globenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=169228 News articles released on Monday reported that Spain, a country that has opposed historic treasure salvage for many years, has ordered its navy to look for huge gold and silver reserves that were lost at sea in the 16th century. According to these reports, naval mine sweepers are set to commence radar and sonar surveys to attempt to locate shipwrecks on the seabed off the southern coast of Spain. The value of the gold and silver treasure, which is believed to include Inca and Aztec artifacts, is estimated at $140 billion dollars. Dances for nickels.
hurricane Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Odyssey has until today to file their appeal of the judge's ruling... stay tuned http://www.barcelonareporter.com/index.php?/news/comments/odyssey_marine_exploration_has_until_july_21st_for_appeal_in_spain_treasure/ -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com
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