New Middlesex musket

[Rats]

Well the folks from Middlesex are offering a Early commercial trade musket, which they date from about 1690 to 1730.

Have a look!

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MCT.SHTML

Take care!

Rats

[Patrick Hand]

Kinda French looking tho....... (the shape of the butt...) <and no funny jokes .... that's what the end of a gun is called.....>

[Rats]

I agree...

Think I still prefer my musketoon. But not bad for the price.

Rats

[CaptainSatan]

Kinda French looking tho.......

I like the butt

Makes her look more primitive, less common.

-CS

[blackjohn]

Why on earth is the forestock cut back? We don't see that on early military muskets, so it seems very odd to see it on a trade musket.

[blackjohn]

Kinda French looking tho.......

I like the butt

Makes her look more primitive, less common.

It would've even more primitive had they nailed the butt plate in place.

Mr Hand, did you replace your screws with nails? It seems someone I know did that, and they deserve applause.

[callenish gunner]

nothing wrong with a bit of french ....many of the lowlands gunsmiths made fowlers and trade gun that followed the french style more than the english ...they actually feel better when you shoulder them ...you don't have to cock your neck as much to sight down the barrel ......got a chance this past weekend to fire one of these guns -shot 5 rounds at 40 yards got a 4 inch grouping ....nicely made

[Patrick Hand]

Mr Hand, did you replace your screws with nails?

I'm going to replace the butt plate with a fowler's .... Then re-finish the stock a little darker. I'm also going to take some of the "shine" off all the metal parts... not so much to make it look worn out... but to make it look used, but well cared for.....

The butt plates look the same on the Middlesex musket as the Loyalist doglock.... I was typing about the drop in the stock making it look more French.

[HarborMaster]

I'll second that ., it really is more of a French stock. I have the 1717 French Army Musket And its got about the same Rifle butt. I like it because it naturally rises off your shoulder to eye level for shooting as opposed to my Bess. They are very comfortable.

[Patrick Hand]

I was just thinking.... so I had to go look at the Middlesex musket's lock..... Dang... it's too bad they gave it a doglock...and with so much drop in the stock.... it looks like a mix of French and English..... A flintlock (Ok... the French made good locks....) would have been better for a French gun....

[Fox]

At the risk of sounding like a walking advert, Reconstructing History's new French musket is very very similar in style, but with a French lock rather than a dog lock and without the inauthentic short stock - and it's a whopping $6 cheaper!

I gotta agree with John on the stock - the shortened stock is a feature we see associated with socket bayonets, so it wouldn't be right for a military musket of the GAoP, much less a civilian weapon. And FWIW I also like a sagging butt on my weapons, much nicer to handle...

[kass]

Thank you, Foxe!

And our Doglock Trade Musket is actually the same gun except with the proper stock for the period:

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index...1&q=1&p=137&r=Y

And it's a whopping $46 less!

[CaptainSatan]

And it's a whopping $46 less!

Money that could be well spent converting an expensive paperweight into an actual firearm

Seriously though, are there any decent images of y'alls Doglock Trade Musket? All I could find was a small picture that didn't show any detail.

Personally I am much more likely to part with my hard earned cash if I can see some decent photos. I suspect that your other potential customers may feel the same way.

-CS

[Rats]

That 1717 is sharp!

I also like the darker finish on the stock!

[kass]

Seriously though, are there any decent images of y'alls Doglock Trade Musket? All I could find was a small picture that didn't show any detail.

Personally I am much more likely to part with my hard earned cash if I can see some decent photos. I suspect that your other potential customers may feel the same way.

-CS

Yes sir! Coming soon. The pictures are just some quick snaps we took when we got the guns before we ran off to RF2. We're getting various detail shots done as we speak and hope to have the pictures up next week. The pistols are already done, but the long guns are taking a little longer.

I'll post here when we have 'em.

[Patrick Hand]

but the long guns are taking a little longer.

Is that why they are called long guns.........

[kass]

Must be!

[callenish gunner]

the all too common misconception that there were only one or two styles of weapons available to the colonies and to the sailors/pirates of this period is a bit narrow ...there are many variations in reference and in museums around the world the minor differences from one gunsmith to the next were significant ....so wether the foreend of a trade gun was cut back would suppose that it was always done or if another source shows that "a trade" gun was full stocked it doesn't mean that they all were ...from what i have seen IMHO refering to Neuman's book there were lots of different guns available ...cause for instance that book has a lot of pictures of lots of guns (and those are just the models that have survived to be studied today) ... just food for thought

[Fox]

On the one hand you're definitely right Hugh, there were plenty of variations around. On the other hand, the shortened stock to take a socket bayonet is quite a distinct difference - can you find an example of a GAoP era musket with this feature?

[callenish gunner]

i have seen some at valley forge national park armoury and in the neuman collection for instance on pg. 54 of battle weapons of the american revolution shows an old trade gun that resembles the middlesex model except that the neuman gun has a side plate and the new one doesn't ...i'm going through some old pics from my trips to the weapons mueseums in the netherlands , belgium and france a few years ago ...

and conversely do you have undisputable evidence that every civillian weapon had a stock that went to the muzzle of the barrel ....as i had stated and i was giving the professionals who research these weapons the "wiggle room" to offer variations on a theme

[Patrick Hand]

Just an out of period thought here.....

On shortining the gunstock at the muzzle..... I figure they did it so they could fit a socket bayonet on the gun....

It's easy enough to do.... take off the barrel..... and whittle off about 6 inches off the stock.... so now you can fix a socket bayonet.... A field modification....

I don't think it was for style or fashion....

So... something to consider....

If cutting down the stock was such a cool thing to do.....

Why wasn't it done on Kentucky rifles.....?

Other than even if you cut down the stock... a bayonet still won't fit over the octigon barrel.......

Even the later period "Southern Mountain Poor Boys" have a full stock.... No Nose cap... but the wood goes all the way to the muzzle......

OK... way after period, they do start making half-stock rifles.... but a half-stock is different than a cut-down stock at the muzzle.......

[kass]

Since this is Plunder and not Twill, I'm not going to continue the debate about historical accuracy.

Middlesex has trade guns with a cut-back stock. We have them with the stock that continues the length of the barrel. Buy whichever you prefer.

Isn't choice a wonderful thing? :)

[Patrick Hand]

Since this is Plunder and not Twill, I'm not going to continue the debate about historical accuracy.

Using that arguement..... why not just get a CVA Hawkins rifle or a pot metal non-firing gun... they are a lot cheaper

Buying a reproduction gun is a major purchase.... so you want to be informed befor you spend your money on something that your not going to be happy with.....

[Evil Tiny]

I were mystified at the price difference between the 2 guns. I think the big difference be that Middlesex ships guns with vent drilled and ready to fire. A bit more restriced fer where they kin be shippin' to, but I hate ta wait ta use me new toys.