pirate coat...wool or denim?

[Atala Syrcuse]

I have a freind who wants a pirate outfit, coat and all. I cans make it fer her, but she's deathly alergic ta wool. Would a heavy demin look right fer a pirate coat? Should it be navy blue or black?

[Matusalem]

I would go more for linen. I have discovered that in the hot sun and pouring rain while attending Pirates in paradise, that wools was not a good choice. Denim is essentially cotton canvas that is dyed with indigo. The whole denim thing started during the 1849 California gold rush, when Levi Strauss made garments made from the said mentioned fabric imported from France. I would fear that a denim coat or other clothing would look something akin to a bad 1970's tv show. Linen is comfortable.

[Ol Man From the Sea]

Atala my love:

I not be the one ta be answerin' ya, but I've been around long enough ta help 'em out a bit. Denim would not be a first choice, better linen, silk or even hemp. To get a better answer you need to tell us more about the impression you are trying to make. Does yer friend want ta be a lowly seaman or a dandy of a captain, or something else? Lots a different ways to say pyrate love. So tell us, with what kind of an "accent" will your friend be sayin' it?

[CaptainSatan]

Here's a Hollyweird Vs. History question.

Is there any evidence that great coats were ever made of canvas/sailcloth?

There is an excellent example of that type of coat worn by Oliver Reed (Billy Bones) in one of the better versions of Treasure Island.

Even if it's PURE HOLLYWEIRD, I'd still like to have one

-CS

[Captain Midnight]

I don't know for sure about the long frock coats, but I do know some sailors' short jackets were made from hemp canvas during the period. I think Kass would be the lady who could offer the best advice on the subject, if you're interested in doing it in the most authentic manner.

[CaptainSatan]

I'm talking about a great coat with the shoulder cape, not a frock coat

-CS

[Fox]

FWIW, I've never come across a "long" coat (frock- or great-) in canvas. Plenty of short jackets in canvas though.

[Lady Alyx]

Cappy Satan,

Hmmmm that reminds me of the long coats that the cowboys wear..they are oiled to stay up in bad weather on long cattle drives.

Austrailian oiled Drover coats.

(psssst I always thought these were sexy when I was into the C/W thang)

[Atala Syrcuse]

Linen.....really? She wants a pair of knee breaches (easy enough) a shirt (ditto) and a "Jack Sparrow" coat ta wear around the midwest faires.

[Ol Man From the Sea]

ta wear around the midwest faires.

well for faires even Nomex sewn with kevlar thread is acceptable.

If you want historical best to look to Kass

hint click on the frock coat and waistecoat patterns

[John_Young]

If it's just a "costume" and she's not planning on history... then go for Denim. But beware that she will get dirty looks, scowls, and the like.

Fact: Denim is linen. It is Linen de Nim region of France. So it did exist.

I myself have a lightweight denim appearing vest I wear to reinactments. (I have documentation so they cower).

But if you wear denim like I said... naysayers, etc.

[HarborMaster]

I would say go with whatever is practical for this persons use. If she worries about what others think then thats a problem you may have to consider. Myself I have three differant material types for differant purposes. I am happy with them all.

[callenish gunner]

i have made waistcoats and breeches from natural coloured denim twill and i have known several others who have even made some from black denim ...i'd shy away from what we today call blue-jean denim the colour existed prior to the gold rush but it is so closely associated with levi strauss

here is some research i have dug up:

Legend and fact are also interwoven when scholars discuss the origin of the name denim. Most reference books say that denim is an English corruption of the French phrase "serge de Nimes;" a serge/twill fabric from the town of Nimes in France dating back to the 17th century. At the same time, there was also a fabric known in France as "nim." Both fabrics were composed partly of wool and we infer de Nimes = denim. Mis translated when it crossed the English Channel , let alone when reaching the American shores in the NE mill towns.

Serge de Nimes was also known in England before the end of the 17th century. The question then arises: was this fabric imported from France or was it an English fabric bearing the same name? Fabrics which were named for a certain geographic location were often also made elsewhere; the name was used to lend a certain cachet to the fabric when it was offered for sale. Therefore a "serge de Nimes" purchased in England was very likely also made in England, and not in Nimes, France.

To confuse things even more, another fabric known as "jean" also existed at this same time. Research on this textile indicates that it was a fustian - a cotton, linen and/or wool blend - and that fustian from Genoa, Italy was called jean. This is evidence of a fabric being named for a place of origin. It was apparently quite popular and imported into England in large quantities during the 16th century. By the end of this period, jean was being produced in Lancashire. By the 18th century, jean cloth was made completely of cotton and used to make men's clothing, valued especially for its property of durability even after many washings.

so the fabric and even the blue colour could be period ...but the choice would be up to you

[Patrick Hand]

and a "Jack Sparrow" coat ta wear around the midwest faires.

Well as everyone above has already said..... for Faire..... Hey go with comfort and have fun......

But.... why take the time for something that is only a "costume" ?

OK I will spend time makeing a Holloween costume..... win $50 for first place... when I could have spent that time working on something that would have payed $1.500 +....... but awh heck it was fun......

And I'm the one that says.... "play with it in cotton first..... then make it outta period fabrics"......

SO.... the second question.... other that Faire.... is she going to wear it for anything else?

If she can't wear wool.... linen or hemp is an option.... (or leather or cotton, if it's just a costume...)

But does she even "care" if it's period ?

I don't know "her".... but I'm going to sujest this....

Make a period coat (get one of Kass's patterns if you can't draft a pattern yourself....( I can draft my own patterns.... that's why I play with cotton first.....))

use linen (hey the wool alergy).... make something you can be proud of making... and pass along the history and skill of what you did to her....

Back in the "Golden Age of Hollywood".... the costume disigners would "lavish" attention to detail and fabrics..... because it made the Actresses/Actors feel good.....And if they felt good... they played thier part So much better.....

If your friend is worth it (well and can afford the fabric, and workmanship for you to make it) Why not make something good.... and it will last forever.....and they will enjoy it much more than just another cheap cotton jack sparrow jacket..... like all the other poor folk wear.......

<Like I tiped above.... I make some stuff outta cotton...... yah... sure .... it works... and most people don't know the difference......

But I do...

Linen will cost a little bit more.....

Check this company out...

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php

I've bourht fabric from them... and as long as you arn't looking for canvas or really heavy stuff they are cool. (There is something about mentioning Kass's name and she gets a discount... but I coulldn't figure that out..... hey... If I 'm buying somethiing and someone else can get a good deal.... coool........)

I've been drinking Brandy tonight.... so I'm kinda rambling.....

But I haven't noticed any difference between the sweat to air flow between cotton and linen..... I was kinda hoping that linen would be this kinda "wonder" fabric..... but truthfully... I can't tell the difference..... (well other that one is period and the other is not......)

OK... final line in this post..... but denim.... for a coat...... it will look cheap..... why not use something better... even if it is cotton.......

[Atala Syrcuse]

She's not a performer, but she does more than one faire a year so she needs something that is going to look good. I was mostly concerned with how the coat would hang. She has a flint-lock if the "period police" stop her in the lanes.

[Jack Roberts]

I find that when I make my own stuff, or make it for others, I can achieve a much better look than buying something from a vendor at a faire. Being able to customize my fabric choices to bring together the look I'm going for. Not being limited to period fabrics should broaden the available fabrics. (Before anyone jumps on me, , I'm not saying that the period fabrics are limiting. Just that they are harder to acquire easily. Sorry but Joann’s doesn't always carry linen, silk or wool. )

If you want to dye your own fabric, a whole word of possibilities opens up. You’re no longer stuck with what is on the rack. That is how I did my coat.

After slamming Joann's, I did find 100% silk on the rack and that’s what I used for my coat. So you can get lucky sometimes. Also they do carry some nice brocades, the drawback is that it’s usually polyester. Anyways I'm rambling, unfortunately I'm not trying with a brandy buzz. Maybe later tonight.

[kass]

She's not a performer, but she does more than one faire a year so she needs something that is going to look good. I was mostly concerned with how the coat would hang. She has a flint-lock if the "period police" stop her in the lanes.

I'd be seriously concerned with how it would drape, Atala. As you know, denim is fairly stiff by nature, even when well-washed, and frock coats look best when they have lots of swish.

Linen might be a decent alternative. But you run into the same problem there. Linen has some swish, but only at lighter weights. In a weight heavy enough to make a good-looking frock coat, you're talking canvas and that doesn't swish at all...

How does your customer feel about 100% cotton velveteen? It's heavy, but it will give a good look. And since it's cotton, it will breathe better than any synthetics you might use.