Cravat or no cravat?

[Matusalem]

What does a typical maritime captain wear for a necktie? I would suspect that the average seaman jsut has a linen clth around his neck, but if you are the captain doring GAOP, what is considered typical?

[Capt. Sterling]

For the well dressed captain.... fine linen cravat.. an original

cravat to the right is fashion plate of the times... one to the left is just a repro...

or Steinkirk, which is just a style of wearing your cravat

Reputedly during the wars of Louis XIV of 1689–1697, except for court, the flowing cravat was replaced with the more current and equally military "Steinkirk", named after the Battle of Steenkerque in 1692. The Steinkirk was a long, narrow, plain or lightly trimmed neckcloth worn with military dress, wrapped once about the neck in a loose knot, with the lace of fringed ends twisted together and tucked out of the way into a button-hole, either of the coat or the waistcoat. The steinkirk was popular with men and women until the 1720s. Supposedly the regiment had not enough time to prepare themselves for battle and fell out with their cravats loosely wound around their necks and not properly tied...

[Capt. Sterling]

[Capt. Sterling]

Did the captains wear these onboard ship all the time? Haven't a clue...

[blackjohn]

Sterling! I am truly honored!

(insert bowing low and removing hat smiley here)

Thank you.

A week or two ago I started work on an article about hats, the flipside of which would be cravats. Now, while the images you are about to see are not captains, this does give a good indication of what one may have seen on the streets of London in the opening decades of the Golden Age.

Talking Heads

OR

Some Observations on Hair,

The Wearing of Hats,

Headscarves and Neckclothes

http://www.piratebrethren.com/articles/hat...ats/hats01.html

Apologies for cross posting, but here's a link to some of the discussion we had about these recently. I'd copy and past the important stuff here, but the sun is rising...

http://www.piratebrethren.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

[Capt. Sterling]

Sterling! I am truly honored!

(insert bowing low and removing hat smiley here)

Thank you.

You are the best Blackjohn... Every time I look at you, I think Damn I have a ton of work to do in order to catch up!

[Captain Midnight]

Sterling!  I am truly honored!

(insert bowing low and removing hat smiley here)

Thank you.

You are the best Blackjohn... Every time I look at you, I think Damn I have a ton of work to do in order to catch up!

You both are role models for what I wish to strive for...I think your impressions are outstanding!

[Quartermaster James]

Now, am I going to have to become familiar with needle and thread, or is there a place from where you fyne gentlemen obtain these cravats?

[kass]

Don't sweat it, Jigme. A cravat is just a long rectangle of linen with some lace sewn to each end. It's the simplest thing in the world to sew.

[jim hawkins]

Unless you cant sew.

< not allowed in the same room with needle and thread. They have photos of me up at fabric stores saying not to sell stuff to me. strue.

[Quartermaster James]

It's the simplest thing in the world to sew.

Well Kass, that's not exactly the response I was hoping to provoke*.

I'm still working on making a bandana. You see, I can work with a lot of materials (edible ones especially!), but for fabric I have no gift.

I guess I'm just doomed to portray the half-nekkid castaway pyrate

*FYI: I was really hoping to see something like "check out Reconstructing History's newsest additions for your cravat needs"!

[Capt. Sterling]

Have been in contact with the V&A, the lady regarding the original cravat (pictured above) is out of the office until the 28th but will be getting dimesions and details after that...

[kass]

*FYI: I was really hoping to see something like "check out Reconstructing History's newsest additions for your cravat needs"!

Don't rule it out yet, Jigme! We're actually working with a company that reproduces period-appropriate laces. But the stuff ain't gonna be cheap...

But don't let anyone kid you, man. A simple rectangle (big enough to go around your neck, tie, and reach your sternum) with lace on the ends is all you need. And I'll tell you a secret -- if you fold it the right way, you don't even have to hem the edges because they'll be hidden in the fold.

[Matusalem]

Thanks to all ye for the great advice!

[Quartermaster James]

Aye aye!

Many thanks, again, and as always!

Thanks especially to Kass for the "sneaky" advice too!

Now, to expand the topic a little:

Cravat, stock, jabot: three items serving a similar purpose. Are the last two also GAoP apropos? Would the choice of one over another be a class distinction, or a geographic one?

Inquiring minds want rum...er, knowledge!

[kass]

Stocks were worn in the GAoP. But they weren't the "stitched into place and buckled" versions that became popular in the latter part of the 18th century. The best-preserved stock we have is one that belonged to George IV when he was Prince of Wales, and it dates to the very late 18th century.

Stocks during this time were more likely strips of linen that were wrapped around the neck. Actually, this is far more prevalent in period English and American illustrations and portraiture than the cravat, which has a decided "French" flavour (not that the English didn't wear French things too...). The collar of the shirt is completely obscured by the stock (unlike later stocks which push the collar up towards the jawline in the Regency style).

Jabots... I'm trying to think of what kind of neck treatment this is. The dictionary defines it as a ruffle on the front of a shirt, but it's a modern dictionary, so I have no idea if that is what was meant in the GAoP.

Ruffled shirts were certainly worn in the GAoP. The ruffle was often made from a much finer linen than the rest of the shirt. The ruffle was sewn to both sides of the center front neck slit and the way the waistcoat was buttoned would push it up. But I can't think of any examples of this ruffle being a separate item.

And now for one you didn't mention, Jigme: the kerchief. A simple kerchief rolled and tied around the throat (or head) is far FAR more prevalent in pictures of sailors (even captains) in this time period. A kerchief is just a square of linen and can be used for all kinds of applications. A very functional accessory for a sailor. 'Cuz, you know, even Captains have to work onboard a ship. They didn't just ponce about, dripping with lace.

[Jack Roberts]

So speaking of the material. It looks very thin? If i'm correct how thin might it be? Thin being a very loose weave.

[kass]

Jack, there's no real "standard" for what thickness of material stocks were made from. There are rough stocks, cravats and kerchiefs and there are fine ones. The fine ones were made out of linen or silk fine enough to see through. The rough ones may have looked much like burlap.

When it comes to neckwear -- like everything else -- think of the person you seek to portray. This will dictate the fineness of the fabric of your neckcloth. Keep in mind that your neckcloth would probably be finer than your shirt material if at all possible.

But a loose weave does not necessarily dictate thinness of the fabric. I have some very tightly-woven silk that you can read a newspaper through.

[Jack Roberts]

But a loose weave does not necessarily dictate thinness of the fabric. I have some very tightly-woven silk that you can read a newspaper through.

Really??(an Ace Ventura draw:D) Thats cool I'll have to find something like that. I would love to find some really fine linen for a shirt and chemise. You know just to have. I also would like to find some thin linen for a coule of shirts so there cooler for us here in florida.

Capt'n Sterling, I love the pic dude. Very cool, I'm also looking to start wearing a cravat with my kit. Great timing.

[kass]

Hey Jack, have you read this article? The Right Stuff

The finest stuff you can get for a decent price is the 3.5oz from fabrics-store.com (accessible through the links in the above article).

But if you're willing to shell out $25-30 a yard, I can get you the GOOD stuff. You can read a magazine through it! Pricey but addictive...

However, this is not the place where I sell my stuff. This is the place where I advise you lot on how to do things in an historically accurate manner. So there! The moderatress has sensored herself!