michaelsbagley Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Hi there, I've done a brief search on the Ladies riding outfit, and have found that there hasn't been a really good converstaion about this style of outfit here yet. After getting most of my authentic(ish) garb together, my other half is bugging me to help her get hers started, and she has chosen to go with the ladies riding outfit (pattern bought from none other than Reconstructing history of course ). So I have a number of questions, and I hope I don't take up too much digital real estate with this post... What reasonable context(s) would a woman wear this type of outfit in near or around pirates? Perhaps a travelling merchant woman? Any other suggestions or thoughts? And would it be reasonable for a woman of modest means (middle class, as in the merchant lady example above) to have an outfit of this type in a plain wool rather than a brocaded fabric? As for colour, is a dark peacock blue pushing the limits of the reasonable period colour wheel (so to speak)?
kass Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Hi Michael! Dark peacock blue is a lovely (and appropriate) colour for the riding outfit. I cannot wait to see pictures of your lady in hers. As for context, you might read the historical notes that came with the pattern... But for those of you following along at home, riding habits in this time period were used for much more than just riding horses. In the late seventeenth and well into the eighteenth century (possibly even until 1800), riding habits were worn by women who were engaging in any kind of outdoor activity -- including simply travelling in a carriage. Although I hate to diminish the beauty and elegance of the riding outfit with this modern parallel, it's kinda like today's track suit -- people wear them when running or walking, but they also wear them on airplanes because they're comfy. Regarding class, remember that the merchant or middle class in this time period was far from poor. This was a time when they were rising so quickly that they often dressed better than the nobility (the latter being lately impovrished). So a merchant class woman could very easily justify wearing a riding habit. I make this one caution -- the riding habit isn't meant to be a woman's daily outfit. I've seen women making the mistake of wearing them all the time. They really were travelling/outdoor activity clothing, not something for daily wear. If your lady wants to continue her liaison with this nefarious company, I suggest she try a mantua next. They're easy, comfortable and lovely. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
michaelsbagley Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 Thanks Kass! That answer gives me all the confidence I (I should say her and I) needed to put scissors to the fabric and have at it... we'll will read the historic notes on order to help further the costume and her accompannying persona along... We probably should have done that before raising the question of context... (Stupid lazy pirates we be) I'll post pics as progress goes on (and with two of us sewing, it should go faster than my stuff did). I will also try to talk her into a mantua (you extortionist ) for more day to day wear.... It looks like I have a few patterns more to order (grumbling about extortionist again )... A waist coat for me, and a mantua for her and the accessories pattern when it comes out... Might as well get the justacorps pattern for when I want to be all spiffy... and maybe a Brandenburg for cooler weather and a great coat for really cold days... Am I forgetting anything? Oh, the new black powder weapons have been whispering my name late at night... Shall I just start having my boss deposit my paycheques to the RH's account?
kass Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Yeah! Hemp canvas and rope for your shelter, kersey, broadcloth, and flannel for your clothing... I'm sure we can come up with more stuff you need. Just give me a couple weeks! Pirates? Ha! Merchants... And Michael, everyone is lazy. I just want you to know that the historical notes include the history and use of women's riding costume so years from now, you'll still have that when this post will be long gone. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
michaelsbagley Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 You are an evil (but very helpful) woman! But you already know that... I was haviong an internal debate over using buying and using some hemp canvas for a tent for my "other" period... I was asked to see if anyone (meaning probably Kass) knows anything about "underpinnings" for this period.... I should just get the woman to sign onto the list herself and ask her own questions...
kass Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Neither, Michael. Just have her read this: Getting Dressed Guide for Women 1680-1725 I wrote it with newcomers to the period in mind. :) Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Lady Alyx Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I would think a riding suit would be just for that..going out for a ride on the horse, with underpinnings so you can ride sidesaddle. I would think traveling clothes was another type of suit for long carriage rides. Kass, I looked over the article and that is the first time I heard mention of spiral stays...how would you fasten the ends then? It doesnt make sense? Help :) ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
CrazyCholeBlack Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 The Zen of Spiral Lacing It really does make a difference. "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
Lady Alyx Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Gee whiz..wow...that was so interesting...never knew..it but the zig zag and the spiral now that you have the paintings shows that they were used.. funny how peeps did not think of the cross lacing. I will definetly keep this in mind when making a new bodice for sure....I kinda like the spiral idea with the staggered holes...cept I don't like the tie off at each end...but the double cords does do away with that....hmmmm I think. ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
kass Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 People did think of cross lacing, but they used it for other purposes. Cross lacing pulls edges together kinda "against their will", if you see what I mean. That's why it's so effective in Victorian corsetry. The purpose of stays is not to compress your waist to a smaller size. It's to support your bust and back. Spiral lacing pulls two edges together firmly without distorting them. So that's why they didn't cross lace. The single biggest mistake movie costumers make is cross lacing stays. It just wasn't done. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Lady Alyx Posted February 26, 2007 Posted February 26, 2007 Kass, wow...you know I am gonna try that out this eve. Since my bodice's are homemade anywho...the eyelets are not perfect perfect...so I am going to try lacing up spiral and do some chores and see what the outcome is.. ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
kass Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Don't be surprised if it doesn't work, Alyx. If the bodice wasn't made to be spiral laced (it needs to have offset eyelets so the edges don't line up wrong), it may make it more uncomfortable. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time!
Lady Alyx Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Kass, you are probably right, my eyelets are not offset to make this work. I think perhaps I may make a mock up and try it out. ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
michaelsbagley Posted April 2, 2007 Author Posted April 2, 2007 I've finished the petticote, and I have the coat fully assembled, I'm waiting on the fabric for the waistcoat, but other than that, it's coming along nicely... But, I'm stuck.... I've searched through the Pub's archives, and found TONS of good information and links on buttons... But all of the information seems to be geared towards buttons for male clothing, or does not specify gender, which leaves me wondering, as the contexts of the threads with the information seems to be "male clothing oreinted". (Sorry about the bad run-on sentence) The notes with the pattern suggest the covered ebroidered wood buttons (passementerie, which I am certain I don't have the patience to do), or domed metal buttons... None of the domed metal buttons in any of the links and information I have found seem to be distinctly female. These two links seem to have the most useful information I've been able to find... GoF's web page on Period Materials Artifacts.org's page on period buttons Would the plain shallow domed buttons be right for a woman's riding outfit? If so, would brass/bronze/copper alloy or white tin be the most appropriate (or either)? Or is there something better and more appropriate out there that I am just not finding? I'm anxious to finish this outfit off so attention can be returned to my outfit, so any quick answers would be greatly appreciated!
Lady Alyx Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Petticoat? Hmmmm can you sew up one fer me...pink tulle and satin...lmao...just teasing KASS!!!!! Guess what I found a picture of a 16th or 17th centurn dame in a 99cent picture frame....I bought the stupid frame just for the picture...the picture was actually nice...but I bought it because the bodice was strung up exactly as you mentioned...spiral...and you can also see in the painting it was tied off at the top...cannot see the bottom tie off. JUST HAD TO TELL you about this pic! ~~~~Sailing Westward Bound~~~~ Lady Alyx
Capt. Sterling Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I've finished the petticote, and I have the coat fully assembled, I'm waiting on the fabric for the waistcoat, but other than that, it's coming along nicely...But, I'm stuck.... I've searched through the Pub's archives, and found TONS of good information and links on buttons... But all of the information seems to be geared towards buttons for male clothing, or does not specify gender, which leaves me wondering, as the contexts of the threads with the information seems to be "male clothing oreinted". (Sorry about the bad run-on sentence) The notes with the pattern suggest the covered ebroidered wood buttons (passementerie, which I am certain I don't have the patience to do), or domed metal buttons... None of the domed metal buttons in any of the links and information I have found seem to be distinctly female. These two links seem to have the most useful information I've been able to find... GoF's web page on Period Materials Artifacts.org's page on period buttons Would the plain shallow domed buttons be right for a woman's riding outfit? If so, would brass/bronze/copper alloy or white tin be the most appropriate (or either)? Or is there something better and more appropriate out there that I am just not finding? I'm anxious to finish this outfit off so attention can be returned to my outfit, so any quick answers would be greatly appreciated! The styling of a Lady's riding habit was based on the cut of male clothing so using metal buttons would not be a problem... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
michaelsbagley Posted May 3, 2007 Author Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks for the suggestion Capt. Sterling! I put some hobby store fabric buttons on it as a temporary measure, I will probably switch the buttons out for some white tin domed buttons in the not too distant future. I used the cheap poly-buttons so she could wear the outfit (even though the wasitcoat, proper stays, and proper shift are not yet done) at a festival last weekend. Here is how it looks so far.
Capt. Sterling Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 Looks grand so far. Did you make the long train or not... hard to tell from the photo "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
michaelsbagley Posted May 5, 2007 Author Posted May 5, 2007 Thanks for the kudos RumbaRue and Capt. Sterling! The petticote is the short version and not trained... Jessica preferred something easier to move around in than something with extra extravagance.
Rumba Rue Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Good move, that's what I did when I made mine. Just couldn't have all that material dragging around in dirt, mud and animal droppings....
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