Tartan Jack

But . . . Fascinating side conversations, oft more interesting than the original topic, are common around here! It's part of what makes this forum so much fun . . .

With the Yamasee War, I was thinking more about the time period and stuff that can be discussed. That is one of the possible impact on "outlets" for people at the time (why at sea rather than settle in the continental British southernmost colony), for refugees from the fighting who may have "gone to sea" instead of settle in Charles Towne, or maybe even how it affected the psyche of Charles Towne and it's turn against pirates at about the same time. But I haven't looked into it too much. I keep looking for stuff on period boats and ships . . . or other non-period topics. I DO think that, as Charles Towne/Charleston was a major trading partner with the various islands, esp. Barbados, a local war would have had personal impact on those in the area- in some form or fashion. I just haven't looked into that "gut hunch" . . . Another influence on me and that particular War . . . I'm IN South Carolina and some of my "teaching" is in the very area of the Yamasee War itself. I use it when "in character" as to why I'm at sea.

I know it's been a week since we discussed this topic, but I wanted to add another thought set. There are three ways to look at what the "Golden Age" actually is/was: 1) the general period where piracy became a major socio-economic and political force for Europe and their colonies (particular the American ones). That would be the larger 1691-1725-ish. 2) the specific period the the mass rash/outbreak of piracy that informed the media and the popular image of piracy, sparking the huge volume of books on piracy and the need for a mass "clamping down" on that piracy. That would be the 1715-1724 period, esp. 1715-1718. 3) the period that sets the "classical image" of pirates and piracy in all forms of fiction from the 1720s through today. That one is more vague, not being set on the real history but as much on myth and legend. The narrative and visual is VERY much based on the 1715-1724 period. The described ships range from Elizabethan times to the Napoleonic Wars, esp. weighted to the 1770s-1820-ish. The NAMES used are also weighted to the 1650s-1720s with little regard to generational and geographic gaps, placing Buccaneers, Rounders, and New Providence pirates all together in a lump in the narrative. Looking at a range of "pirate" films over the last bit, I noticed that even the "buccaneer" era films presented the situation as it was in New Providence (pre-Rogers), only with the location names changed to fit the presented era-> as many tried to work Morgan into the "classic" pirate genre situations. Historically, 1 and 2 are easily justifiable depending on the specific qualifications defining "Golden Era" historically. The third is what it is in the popular imagination, such as in "The Pirates! Band of Misfits"/"The Pirates! In an Adventure with Scientists!" which puts pirates dressed (mostly/genrally) as early 1700s pirates in Victorian England a century later. Wikipedia even defines the GAoP as: "In the popular modern imagination, pirates of the classical period were rebellious, clever teams who operated outside the restricting bureaucracy of modern life. Pirates were also depicted as always raising their Jolly Roger flag when preparing to hijack a vessel. The Jolly Roger is the traditional name for the flags of European and American pirates and a symbol for piracy that has been adopted by film-makers and toy manufacturers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy And whoever wrote the specific article on the GAoP sees it as a broad range with three parts: " The Golden Age of Piracy is a common designation given to one or more outbursts of piracy in maritime history of the early modern period. In its broadest accepted definition, the Golden Age of Piracy spans from the 1650s to the 1730s and covers three separate outbursts of piracy: the buccaneering period of approximately 1650 to 1680, characterized by Anglo-French seamen based on Jamaica and Tortuga attacking Spanish colonies and shipping in the Caribbean and eastern Pacific, the Pirate Round of the 1690s, associated with long-distance voyages from Bermuda and the Americas to rob Muslim and East India Company targets in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea, and the post-Spanish Succession period, defined by Marcus Rediker as extending from 1716 to 1726, when Anglo-American sailors and privateers left unemployed by the end of the War of the Spanish Succession turned en masse to piracy in the Caribbean, the American eastern seaboard, the West African coast, and the Indian Ocean. Narrower definitions of the Golden Age sometimes exclude the first or second periods, but most include at least some portion of the third. The modern conception of pirates as depicted in popular culture is derived largely, though not always accurately, from the Golden Age of Piracy." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Piracy Wiki is getting better, but still remains . . . imperfect . . . I still hold to what I posted before.

Had to take my girl to something . . . Something I'd be interested in is the second tier of transactions by the taverns, prositutes, and other "wine, women, and song" expenses that the pirates spent their funds on and where that went. Quite a few decades ago, Clemson University had to work to have games against Georgia Tech, as the 2 became big rivals even before they were in the same athletic conference. So, the Clemson fans would stamp their money with little tiger paws (the schools mascot and teams logo). The reason was that the residents of Atlanta, Georgia (where Georgia Tech's campus is located) could see the Clemson dollars filter around the city as they changed hands-> showing the money the Clemson-Tech football game brought to the city. Thereby, they could justify the argument of the economic impact of the game, causing it to happen more often and also fueled the interschool rivalry. Likewise, I wonder the real-world economic impact of the pirates on the non-major populations, where the pirates COULD unload their non-personal-need goods.

For the "riches" to be worth anything, they need a buyer who values them. The pirates only could "move" non-supplies if they had a merchant or vendor of services connection they could trade the item with to get a return. I'd agree with Foxe that they likely intended to be parasites or on a series of personal revenges and a revolt, BUT they ended up serving an economic necessity-> namely getting goods to those desperate enough for those good to trade with criminals.

Goods with no real personal need are useless. They must trade them for something they can use. That includes "riches" one can't spend. They become so much junk metal and rock, even if pretty.

Reviving old thread . . . For a request: Could someone make a copy of the 2 page spread showing the concept art in the "Art of" book (I'm sure SOMEONE owns it on here)? I'm really only interested in those 2 pages-> not worth $15-25 to me just for that. Just PM me with a link or for my email for a direct image message, if you want. That would be fine too.

Hehehehehehe

Probably not . . .

Swashbuckler is good at that. But, at least they were GOOD threads! I don't mind that too much. I still want to see it again. I'd LOVE for them to add Atlanta or Charlotte to their list. Charleston, SC would be extremely appropriate location in the Southeast, as it was in the middle of the actual historical events/period-but I don't see that happening . . .

Adam's right. If it isn't just right, homemade black powder isn't something I'd want around. Goex is worth the expense not to blow up or damage anything, which would cost even more. That said, if your deadly serious, there's info on-line. Just be VERY careful!

Bigger image:

I figured you did. But, I posted in case some of the other folks didn't. First, the English and Scottish flags separately: And the combining: While watching the 2012 Monaco GP, I'm trying to find some on-line shots of the Scot version of the Union Flag: It is also discussed within the Wikipedia article on the Scottish flag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Scotland In the present political situation in Scotland, regarding Scottish autonomy (whether semi-autonomous rule or independence), the "Scot on top" flag is making a reappearance.

Any one know when this will come South, esp. to the Atlanta-to-Charlotte area? There are a number of people I want to see this! (I saw it in Philly, but WANT to see it again . . .

It was OFFICIALLY adopted to replace the separate national flags completely in 1707 with the Act of Union. Previously, t had been used in connection to Royal stuff that was part of both nations. Up till 1707, English ships and Englishmen use the white flag with the red Latin cross, centered vertically and horizontally as the St George Flag, while the Scottish ships and Scots used the blue flag with a large white "X" which is a St Andrew's Cross (AKA St Andrews Flag). After 1707, All ships of England and Scotland would use the Union flag rather than their former national flags. The Union Flag of 1707 looked like: The modern variation added the "red cross of St Patrick" for Ireland, based on a white flag with a red "X" claimed to have been used by the Irish, The origin of the white/red "St Patrick Flag" is hotly debated. The Irish cross is offset to let Scotland's white cross have the "place of prominence" of being on the top of the canton corner. So, the top hoist-side corner should have the red on the bottom of the white. Also, of interest, is that the original Union flag description was vague as to which cross was on top, so many Scots had the Scottish white cross over the English red cross . . . It remains a point of contention to some Scots. The percentage is also a matter of debate. On that matter, one is reminded that MUCH involving England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales is hotly debated. Even simple stuff can be debated more than those outside it think makes any sense. History is revised and rewritten by all sides for each's own advantage. Unfortunately, such hides and make the truth (what really happened) harder and harder to decipher.

Hella is an abrreviation of "Helleva"/"Hell of a" but has now expanded into usage where such isn't quite a literal replacement. A common usage is Hellaflush for wheel (rim/tire combos) fit very flush to the wheel well lip. You see it on decals on the back of said vehicle even.

Pirate Brethren isn't, as a group, very active anymore. BUT, the info on their site is a treasure trove. You'll also recognize a LOT of the same names on here are there (esp. in Capt Twill).

The little Adventure ketch in at Charles Towne Landing in Charleston, SC is a replica of a1690s small, slow trading vessel It is amazingly accurate and actually does float on the waters of the Ashley River, though moored for tourist visits. This is more pirate prey than predator, as it would be VERY slow and is more designed to be easy to handle by a small crew on trips between Charleston and Barbados or Charleston and other American colonial cities.

Thanks. I've read mostly on the Scottish politics of the time, mainly Campbell of Argyle and Graham or Montrose. That's my weakness here.

Thanks. I was wondering about Wyndham Gallery and Ormonde. Royal Fortune, I wasn't sure if it was a Jacobite reference or THEMSELVES as a new royalty of the sea.

Morgan made use of his former underlings to capture those that didn't yield, such as James "Jamie Boy" Waring in hunting down Capts.Billy Leech, for example. Oh yeah, that is the plot of The Black Swan of 1942 and has little accurate in it . . . But, still one the very best pirate films ever made!

(Foxe wrote a FINE article about it and Colin Woodward's "Republic of Pirates" make a significant deal of it)

Just a note . . . these names have HUGE Jacobite significance for the particular period immediately following the failed Jacobite Rebellion of 1715. ' While a number are the original ship name before capture (I find the ship names, in themselves fascinating)

Right, Foxe, He would make an amazing movie better than a screen writer could make up . . . and ALL TRUE!

What I WANT to be reading: Jolly Rogers: The Pirate Banner by E. T. Fox (The extraterrestrial red rodent)