Tartan Jack

Thanks for that link, Bagley! That is helpful for many configurations.

First Knight

What are other style of tents and how were they put together? Oh, while on it here: How likely would a metal grommet be? As they weren't used on ship, I'm, thinking not very. - Oh, and I have the grommets already from past projects, so that isn't the issue.

Now, more serious. My issue is that people are Hurting their own causes through dealing with them by violent attacks. Of course, the idea is that they protect the life of whatever whales the ship was about to kill hunting. Not that I agree entirely with the causes of EITHER side in this war.

(Found looking for a humorous pict for another tread and strangely appropriate here.)

If I wanted to make one, how would I go about it? Edit: Above post was made AS I was posting this one.

As I am going to Lockhouse in July and am rapidly putting my kit together, I realize I need a tent to sleep in. I have LOTS of wools to use as blankets and any crap covers inside the tent, so that isn't an issue. My problem: not much budget right now. SO, whereas, in theory, pirates would not have "general issue" camping gear, wouldn't have the means or necessity to have complex camping gear, that should not be overcome-able. So, what should I buy? How much of it? How would I put it together? What do I need to do with it before the event (prepping it)? Oh, and this just for me to sleep in.

HAPPY anniversary of that path from warmness, down a tight tunnel, and into a cold, cold world . . . You were right to scream then . . . Then, you met us and all was right with the world! Just kidding! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

How did everyone fit into that small of a Honda? Must be a "clown car" . . .

Lego Pirates http://pirates.lego.com/en-us/Default.aspx

Legio quarta Flavia Felix (4th Lucky Flavian Legion)

We can talk kilts then. Oh, and I am a mod on the Brotherhood of the Kilt and also interested in Jacobite reenacting. I am more than a tad interested in the subject and have actually researched that far more than anything pirate over the years (hence my opinions on some things argued over by kilties).

PUN! FINALLY! Someone realized my intentional use of "picts" instead of "pics" as the abbreviation for "pictures." Congrats and KUDOS!

OOO . . . I would love one of those! Whenever my finances balance back out, I want a George AND a QA one, printed on hemp or the like, and one wallet (maybe).

Green Eggs and Ham (Visions of an Irish festival gone horribly wrong . . . )

Read it. REALLY good book on a person who blockaded your primary place of residence! Need to read again, when I get the time.

Dr Suess

Except that there ARE period pictures showing half-plaids form the 1715 Jacobite Rebellion through the 1745 one and plenty of picts of the Highlander regiments after that using them as fatigue garments, as the belted plaids were their uniform. Examples abound by the American War/Revolution of the 1770s/1780s. In the 1700s, belted plaids remained the more common garment. It was in the 1800s that it was dropped and the "wee kilt" became formalized and was sewn down, developing during the 1800s into the kilt we know today.

(I am breaking these into smaller posts, so I don't lose them in computer hiccups. Each is a lot of work.) First, the term "tartan" originally meant a think, hard, wool material. There is debate over what it exactly was and how it was made. It likely wasn't the worseted wool of today, but was something else with a harder "hand" (in no way fuzzy or felted). Anyways, the term references the material NOT the color or pattern. They could be solid, patterned or ANY colors possible to be dyed. Over time, it became a reference to a particular type of pattern woven into the material, rather than the material itself. That is what it is understood as today, and seems to have meant in the 1700s too. Now, using the term as we mean it today: Tartans are VERY common for a long time in Scotland. We have found ancient artifacts and many scraps of wool in what we would call tartan patterned in archaeological finds. Many were stoppers in bottles. So, we know that had it and it was common. By 1600, it was already seen as being commonly Scottish and is shown in many illustrations of Scots. One reason it was common: They dyed wool thread in small batches in buckets. As anyone who had hand dyed material, it is hard to match one batch to another. To balance the shades and mask the differences in shading, a complex criscrossing pattern was used. Also, it seems to have been popular and used widely for a LONG time. Now, belted plaids are shown as both tartaned and solid. A status symbol was a solid red belted plaid, seen in MANY period paintings. It would have meant they were wealthy enough to afford that much red AND could afford to get it dyed consistently to get a near-uniform plaid (as in blanket, not pattern). Solid ones are period and not very rare. Though tartan ones were common. Now, family associations for tartans were (basically) unheard of before the 18-teens. The issue that created them was the writings of Sir Walter Scott and Scotts staging of the Tartan Gala of the 1819 visit of George IV to Edinburgh. - I say basically, as Grant tried to make one and had a set of matching tartan plaids made for his household and shown in the FAMOUS paintings of the Grant Champion and the Piper (their tartans are artistic attempts to paint matching tartan, though the paintings don't actually match exactly). These are the 2 shown to "prove" tartans as livery. It was an attempt at that, but failed MISERABLY. Grant's own son used other tartans and ignored the one his father tried to implement. So, many of the "clan tartans" existed in-period, some of them actually being based on period paintings, but they meant nothing and were chosen and worn as a matter of personal taste and preference. Don't worry about them for period garb and wear what you like. Now, for the shades themselves: The best writing I have found is by Peter MacDonald, a top scholar on the subject of tartan. He wrote and article on tartan colors: http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/colour.htm I agree with him!

Oh, on the modern 8 yard, knife pleat, kilts to sett . . . The most important document for me is "The Kilt & How to Wear It" by The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine (1901), (As found on: http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/books.htm ) His book is a collection of articles Erskine wrote around the turn of the 1900s. In it he decrys the "excessive" length of kits at SIX yards, describes kilts as 4 yards, discussed the civilianizing of military side pleat kilt in "recent years" and favored the traditional BOX pleat kilt for practical use. In one section, he praises and says he is fond of the NEW idea of making the pleats in such a way as to accurately imitate the sett of the tartan on the back of the kilt as on the front. That implies that the COMMON way they were pleated was "to stripe" or to nothing at all (as the older civilian kilts are seen). By that document, the "modern" 8-yard, knife pleat, to sett kilts aren't even accurate for the mid-1800s, much less anywhere in the 1700s. So, the "correct" period "kilts" for the 1700s were the Belted Plaid and the Half-Plaid (a name I saw somewhere and liked)/"Philabeg" . . . My opinion: BOTH were 4 yards or so (often less) in length, used belt loops in some form, were not sewn (except sometimes with bound edges by a ribbon), were gathered (as happens with belt loops) and so forth. Either way, there is ZERO evidence of a plaid (full or half) being worn on ANY ship outside the Scottish Isles (and those are debatable). So, NO ONE should were one shipboard or represent themselves at a reenactment as having worn on ship-board. (I will bring one to Lockhouse, but for after hours comfort, not during the day. Next post Tartan and Colors:

OK. I'm back now. The old "kilts" were actually called "belted plaids," among other names. I like that term, as "plaid" really just means "blanket." What is it? It is essentially a large rectangle of fabric worn belted around the waist. That rectangle is 4 to 6 yards long. I prefer smaller to larger, and I'll tell why later. That rectangle is also "double width" wide. First, remember that most Highland looms were 24-28 inches wide or so with 27 inches seeming to be very common. So, a double width is 2 sections of 27-ish wide material, each being 4-6 yards long. The result is a rectangle 54 or so inches wide and 4-6 yards long. -Now, that rectangle is set up so the length (4-6 yards) is gathered in the middle and strapped to the body with the 54-ish inches width going from the knees to over the head. There are flat flaps in front and gathers in the back. They are gathers, not pleats. They are loose and not ironed or pressed in any form or fashion. I am becoming more and more convinced that the original belted plaids had some form of belt loops and the plaid was strung along a belt or cord and put on. If using a cord, then a belt was put on over it. An argument is found: http://albanach.org/drawstring.htm Anyways, it is commonly shown as being put on like: So, a belted plaid is a plaid worn as using a belt. It was like a "swiss-army-knife" garments that was body covering, rain coat, carrying bag (the pockets created by the top part hanging down), blanket, sleeping bag, and more all in one. The result looks like: Soon (after I finish the cuffs, I'm taking picts of my shirt and sleeveless jacket. As my trousers or slops aren't yet finished, I'll post picts of a belted plaid instead. Around the 17-teens, the garment commonly called a "philabeg" (I don't like that name) started to show up. Basically, it is half of a belted plaid. It is the lower half of the 2 sewn together parts without the top part sewn on. So, the result is a waist down only variation of the belted plaid. The question is why it shows up at this time. I think it is a) the more common use of a jacket negating the need to the upper part for warmth and rain coverage and the move of highlanders and the belted plaid to cities and factories and away from the outdoors and open glens and mountain sides (it wasn't needed for many of the "swiss-army-knife" purposes and became just a wasted bulk of fabric. So, it IS period appropriate too, but looks almost exactly like the belted plaid shown in the upper picts hanging loose, just a few inches hanging down rather than several feet. Aside: The philabeg is one of the 2 main reasons I think beltloops are historical, as a philabeg falls off with only a belt and loose fabric. So, more attachment is needed. Add that to the fact that the hanging gathers is NO different than a belted plaid implies that they are hanging the same way at the base. Add to that the fact that there aren't really pleats one direction or the other, just a hanging mess, doesn't look like how one would fold it up on the ground (in loose pleats). Rather, it looks like each is scrunched along a central point. They are irregular gathers, rather than pleats of any kind. Now, for the length: Having tried to wear belted plaids anywhere from 8 yards to under 4, I like 4 MUCH more than more. The top part is more managable and very easy to make look practically identical to early illustrations. More than 4 just adds too much material and the result of manipulating the top part never looks like period picts. Add to that, ALL the earliest surviving tailored kilts are 4 yards or less (most less). To me, that makes a convincing case to plaids being closer to 4 yards (or roughly 3 times hip measurement) than the more commonly cited (today) length of 6 yards. The 6 yards reference looks to come from 2 types of sources: 1) lengths of single width fabric orders (later cut and sewn lenthwise to double width THREE yard plaids) and 2) references to THIN material, which is folded in HALF (to make a 3 yard length of double thickness) before it is put on. The more common period references are to 3 to 3.5 yard plaids, even more than 4. As I am likely larger than most Highlanders of the 1700s (I am 6'2" with 45 inch hips/butt), so 60 inches wide and 4 yards is pretty close to a scaled up version (maybe a bit large) Oh, and I have sources for all the above statements (documentation, much from period or post period, but still old books). If you want them, ask, and I'll try to find them.

I have a LOT to say about this. That is a major personal interest and I have done a LOT research on this. But, I have to split right now. I'll post more tonight. Look at the 1715 Jacobite rebellion for info on the primary part of the GAoP, which was just after that rebellion. More to come later tonight. Oh, and NOTHING like the modern 8-yard knife pleat existed until many, many years later (like Victorian/Edwardian times).

At least they are all you on different computers/locations . . . You didn't make multiple IDs. Have one fight another on your board, have another give a warning or 3, then have your main ID some in as peacemaker, to the congrats of other members of the board . . . (I've seen THAT done!)

Speaking of which . . . how many incarnations of Mission are on this board?