michaelsbagley

CrazyChole, You've got a perfectly valid point... But there is another way of looking at things... At a re-enactment or living history event, you can be the rock star, or the educator. The combatants do get the most attention and draw the biggest crowds, but they get asked the same handful of questions (for the most part) over and over again. The crafts-people and artisans draw much smaller crowds, but they tend to draw better more focussed crowds that ask more interesting questions... I've been on the battlefield many many times, as well as done more esoteric skill or craft displays, and to be honest, I prefer the smaller crowds and more engrossed conversations of the small crowds than answering the same handful of questions about weapons and comat dozens of times over and over again. Hope this helps shed a new light on possible offers you a new perspective on things for you.

Oh, for an online source of manuals on how to do these dances, you can see this web site.... http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/Del/www....ntry_dance.html The web site explains the steps, has sample music, and bibliographical notes if you are interetsed.

I just had a quick look through the source Kass quoted, and I recognize a great many of those dances... I learned a great many of them at Pennsic.... and if I am connecting some unrelated dots in the correct manner, it seems that "English Country Dancing" is what is correct for the GAoP.. And if so, many SCA groups know and practice these dances despite the fact that they were created after the period the SCA generally covers. And if I have connected the dots correctly, it would seem that I am already somewhat schooled in period correct dancing for the GAoP... Great for me, but on that note, the SCA would be a good way for anyone interested to learn those dances. I am not generally a big advocate of the SCA (nor do I naysay it).... I should just stop there before I put my foot in my mouth and just state that the SCA is a good place to learn English Country Dance.

So I've been thinking too much, and I started wondering if there were any colours that were particularily popular to the GAoP.... And would certain colours be significantly more or less in cost and have class issues attached to them? I don't know a great deal about the GAoP yet, but I'm thinking by that point in history, the fabric/dyeing industry would have developed to the point where most colours are obtainable, but it's still early enough that I think certain colours would be easier or harder to obtain and hence affect the price thereof and possibly have class connotations attached to them. I'm specifically wondering about ochre... I have a few spare yards of ochre (dark mustard coloured) wool that I am thinking of making a jacket and/or waistcoat from and was wondering if the colour would be at all innappropriate. Any thoughts would be appreciated,as I would liek to know more about fabrics, colours and the like from the period just for personal knowledge.

Not that this statement will break your heart, but I will probably go with both options.... I am striving to have some authentic pirate garb done for RF2 in February, for at least myself, but I will eventually want to get correct the patterns for garb for the misses... Or are the patterns for shift in the 1600s package the same or very similar to what will be forthcoming in the GAoP package in a month or so as well? I see that you have added a great many more pictures of the fabrics on your site since I last looked a week or so ago as well.... Very nice stuff....

So I'm going through the Reconstructing History web site today, and checking through various posts on this forum trying to decide the best route to go for making myself some GAoP garb, and gearing up to place an order when I get my paycheque later today... And I notice something is missing... Not to complain Kass, but your Reconstructing History site doesn't seem to sell a pattern for a period shirt. I looked and you sell shirts already constructed, but for the die hard do it yourselfer, I didn't find a pattern. Am I not looking in the correct place? Or is this an item that is "in the works"? I think I am just about decided on what I want for myself as far as everything else goes (pants/slops, waistcoat, jacket/coat etc.)... But I will probably require a shirt to wear under and with all of that, and I would prefer to make it for msyelf. If you don't have one or have plans to release a pattern in the not too distant future, could you direct me to a source? Or will my option be to take w wild stab at it or purchase a premade item? Thanks for any help or advice you can offer!

Kass has a very good point, I've seen paralells to this discussion in other period discussion boards as well, particularily Norse/Viking... It can be proved that the eye glasses were not invented or worn until much after the Viking period, but there are those wgo want to be apart of Norse living history events who can not function without their glasses, and for one reason or another can not wear contacts... Rather than this particular debate being about the fact that the Norse Vikign did not wear glasses, someone shose to twist the discussion into about exclusionism.Why did someone make something that completely about facts that were known, and twist it to be about something it was not? Who can say. I know this thread is not exactly like the example I have just made, as the hairs in this thread are being split a little closer, but the attitude about the debate seems to be going the same way. Some are coming from the standpoint, of advocating doing only what we know WAS DONE in period at liviing history events. Others are coming from the standpoint of what they beleive to be reasonable extrapolation being acceptable at living history events. The problem lies in the fact that you will rarely find two people or groups that agree on what and where the lines of resonable extrapolation are.... So ultimately, this conversation is moot, as each event coordinator will set the guidelines for their event, and people will particpate or not based on their beleifs and preferences.. Each group or individual will design their gear and garb based on their desire to use all facts and documentable items and outfits, or they will base their garb and gear on, it existed in the time frame, and it is not unreasonable or that unbelievable for someone in that timeframe to have such an item or piece of clothing.... It's two different approaches, compatable in some circumstances, not in others circumstances... We are all supposed to be hear to share info and have a good time, let's not let the difference in approach between different individuals or groups make things unpleasant. I hope this has helped clear matters up and hasn;t fanned the flames....

Reading this thread has raised a number of questions in my mind, assuming a fair sized re-enactment is happenning with reasonably equal proportion of men and women present, I undertsand the stance of having only one or at the most two female pirates for the sake of authenticity (specially if portraying Rakham's crew), but if a generic crew was being used, would it still be reasonable to have a female pirate or two (to display the full range of thing in the GAoP)? I know this essentilly goes to the preference of the event organizer, but lets for the sake of discussion assume a relative standard in GAoP Living History events... Secondly, what would the other women portray that would hold to authenticity? I've read a bit on the Pirates in Paradise thread that suggests that other women would be portraying "women of the evening" or other female vendor types that would or could reasonably exist in a pirate camp. But what other options are there? I know this will somewhat depend on the "scene" of the re-enactment, but a quick list of options and likely common scenarios would really help me get a better grip on what to expect from a GAoP living history event. Any suggestions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Well I didn't get much in the way of piratical gear... But I did get this really cool Pirate Nutcracker.... The first thing I thought of when openning it was (doing best hollywood piratey voice) "Arrrrgghhhh.... I'll bust your nuts!" I also got a great t-shirt with a neat Jolly Roger on it.

Thanks Kass, I figured the canvas would come only in the one colour, which is fine... I was asking more about the lighter hemp fabrics, such as the twills and tabby (I particularily like the herringbone twill)... I am looking more for blue and grey as, I've kind of adopted those colours as what I want for my pirate garb (see my profile photo of me in fantasy pirate garb)... I'm not dead set on any particluar shades or tones of blue or grey, but I do prefer light to medium greys, and brighter blues (not so much on the navy blue). And I really wanted to throw in an additional off-topic "pot" shot during that inquirey, it just seems that all the good puns had been used already.

Thanks GoF... You answered the questions perfectly... I did mean fabric lining though... I was wondering if the red tongues were possibly red fabric linings, as the red portions seems to be only on the inside part of the tongue and only shows on the portions where the tongue seems to be rolled out (I hope I'm making sense). But now seeing those other pictures of shoes that you posted, it looks more like as you said, that the red tongue is just paint and not some sort of lining. But it is interesting that there are fancy fabric covered shoes (for the wealthy anyways).... I don't think I would ever bother trying to make a fabric covered shoe (it's probably beyond my skill) and it also probably really doesn't suit any kind of pirate or privateer impersonation anyway.

I just had a look at the fabric on the Reconstructing History site... It looks great... Does it only come in "natural" colour? And if so, how well does it take dyes? and any suggestions as to what types of dyes to use? (I'm guessing Rit dyes from the grocery store won't do) Or am I thinking too much, and would most of the items made from this type of fabric just be made in a natural colour?

Hmmm broken blade flying about 20 feet through the air.... (pauses while converting imperial to metric measurement).... yep that's about right... Same thing happened with my Chen Viking sword... Like I said, we were going rougher than normal, but it was unexpected and a bit of an upset... :) How long did you use you Chen basket Hilt before it's demise? I think I will do a seacrh on Swatton Cutlass to see what they are about... Thanks for the feedback!

As a semi-retired Goth... I can only say, that I resemble that remark! Or is it that I resent that remark?

Ya know, I have been looking at the GOF web site with regards to the information on shoes of the GAoP (I'm pretty good at custom footwear)... And I was wondering about the red heels and tongues on the shoes in that image on the web page... http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/footwear.htm Is it possible the shoes may have had some sort of fabric lining? Or was the previous post in this thread, where I saw that someone mentioned that the red colouring on the heels was just red paint the most popular theory for the tongue of the shoes as well? Just curious...

Hi there, Being the day before the X-mas break, and me having an incredibly slow day at work, I got sniffing around eBay... I found that Paul Chen (distributed by Cas Iberia) makes both a practical mortuary swords and basket hilt swords... Here is a link for the mortuary sword... http://cgi.ebay.com/Paul-Chen-PRACTICAL-MO...1QQcmdZViewItem And a lin for the Basket Hilt one... http://cgi.ebay.com/PRACTICAL-BASKET-HILT-...1QQcmdZViewItem How would these fit appearance wise for GAoP? I have used a Paul Chen practical Viking sword, it was okay (you get what you pay for and they are cheap averaging around $100 to $150 US each), but I did snap my blade in half after about a year and a half of heavy regular use. To expand on the snapping on the blade so as to NOT appear to be knocking the quality of the swords, it was kind of my fault the blade snapped as myself and my opponent were hitting a little heavier than normal on each others shields, and my wrist twisted slightly and I hit his shield boss almost full force ion the flat of the blade rather than the edge of the blade as I should have been doing. Anyway, just wanted to point out a few possible options on a cheap to reasonably priced dulled and safe combat blade that may fit for GAoP. Any feedback or comments on these blades from someone in the know on how period accurate they are/look would be great. Also any ffedback from anyone that has used these particular Paul Chen blades would be most welcome. Thanks! And have a very happy holiday season!

What part of the mid-west are you from Jessie? I have dabbled in Anglo-Saxon re-enactoing as well... and as the Saxon and Norse re-enactors tend to flock together more often than not, there is a decent chance we know some of the same people.

to be a teetoller

Well unless you are brand new to sewing, if you wanted new clothes for RF2, I would recomment the Sailor's Jacket and the Trousers... both go together very easily... and quickly unless you chose to hand sew everything.. then the month of Jan. may not be enough... As sad as this sounds, I am pretty damn good at hand sewing... So good, that mon cheri asks me to construct her garb for her as well as doing my own. I do also have a horrible habit of hand sewing things entirely whether they need to be or not. I made a superhero costume for halloween (Green Lantern), I hand sewed the whole thing just because I was too lazy to pull out the sewing machine. I do really appreciate the advice on the easier items to make though, knowing that I can pull off somethign that is both authentic and easier to make (all things being relative), I may aspire to aim to have something basic put together for Re-enactor Fest. I guess it will mostly depend on what my work schedule is like over January.... Maybe I will make sure I bring a bottle of my best reserve with me to toast new acquantances with... (It's a 5 year old dry raspberry mead I made)... I think I have a case left...

Well Captian Sterling, I tend to prefer a good red wine or a nice dry mead to chocolate milk... It will be nice to meet some fellow Norsemen who also do the whole Pirate thing... The more I think of it, the more I am considering doing one day as a Norseman, and the other day as a Pirate (unfortunately my pirate garb is Hollywood at the moment), but I am very interested in meeting some pirate, and I would love the opportunity to pick brains over authentic piratical stuff... I will be looking into buying some of the Reconstructing History patterns in the near future (probably after X-mas), so I'm guessing I won't have the time to complete new pirate garb before the event. As for the name... I've decided to go with a "French" pirate theme, I will have to bruch up my French Speaking abilities some, but, oui madame (ou et tu une Madamoiselle?), je m'appelle Monsieur Michel Vachon, maitre des armes. It will be nice to make your acquaintance as well, as ewll as many of the others that will be present.

I've been wanting to go to the Re-enactor fest as well.... And until today, I have had serious doubts about my ability to attend... But fortunately as of today my odds of being able to attend have increased dramatically. The fact that it happens over the weekend closest to my birthday is also working in my favour. I hope to meet some of you there, although I beg your forgiveness as I will likely be attending as a representative of another time frame than GAoP... It looks like the Viking me will be the one that attends...

Thanks Kass... I was able to glean most of those answers from your previous post... I just inconveniently happenned to be posting my questions just as you were anwering them the first time. Looks like a great group, but probably a bit far away for me to commute, if you even take on beginners like me. Although if your PA area members are anywhere in the vacinity of Pittsburgh... I may be interested in meeting them... But I am going to go out on a limb and guess that if the group is centered in DC, that your PA area members are more from the Philly area.... Thanks for answering all my questions though!

I just took a quick gander at the Brethren's web site... Nice stuff... and some good pictures of sword fighting too... But the million dollar question still lies as "where are you guys located?" The only group I have found that is any where near where I am (Central Ohio) is a group that is centered in Michigan and Indiana... (anyone)Feel free to IM or email me if you may be able to help steer me to some like minded folks if you can assist. Again, I beg the pardon of all here for this post divirging from the posted topic... But to bring things back on topic, what swords (makes, model etc.) do you and the other members of the Brethren use?

I suspect this is a technical objection rather than a practical one. For those less knowledgeable on the chemical make-up of steels (me included) the important thing is that AC blades get fewer (if any) dings in them than any other sword I've ever seen in 15 years of reenactment. And trust me, I've put my AC blades through some serious abuse! I'm actually curious as to how many different Pirate groups/re-enactors actually do the whole steel sword fighting stuff. I've not seen anything but the staged (and obviously so) fighting at the Renn-Faires that I have been to (mostly in the form of battle chess). Having experience with live steel combat, I would be incredibly curious as to how common it is in GAoP re-enacting.... And if it is reasonably common, what groups are doing it and where they are located... Sorry if this line of questioning is starting to veer off into something that may be better suited to another thread..... More on topic, besides the Armour Class sword mentioned earlier in this thread, are there other good dulled steel combat GAoP swords out there that would hold up? Basically to me an ideal sword would have a dulled edge, rounded point, and a blade that can handle some real abuse, but is also historically accurate to the GAoP.

That's interesting, this is the first comment I've heard about an Armour Class swords being too high in the carbon department... Having done the whole Viking Age rebated steel thing for about five years, and having worked with a few people that used Armour class swords on a very regular basis, I would have thought this would have been something I would have heard of before... And with the Viking age combat, it's not only blade on blade contact, but there is also shields and metal shield bosses to take into account... That and the fact that many of the Vking age rebated steel combatants play pretty rough. Either way, I've heard that the Armour Class swords (the blades anyway) are guaranteed for life, and know someone whose AC sword broke, and was replaced. The guy sent his handle fitting back, and was shipped back his fitting on a brand new blade. I also had the chance to use an 9 year old AC sword as a loaner when I broker my Paul Chen practical blade. The rounded point isn't very visually appealing, but having been on the receiving end on many hundreds of thrusts, it is a VERY neccessary evil... I'm guessing a rounded point on a cutlass or similarly styled blade would look even goofier than a rounded point on a Dark Age style sword does.