daveypirate

Ok… back onto subject. We have thus so far almost agreed that Pirates are not your decent type of folk whilst engaging in the activity of Piracy. Yet it could be viewed that prior to assuming the role of piracy these pirates held a semi decent life. For instance take the life of Captain Bartholomew Roberts (Black Bart); some call the most successful pirate of all time. Black Bart did not intend to engage in piracy until his ship was attacked by Pirates who by force made him one of their own at the age of 37. Yet after successfully looting up to 400 hundred ships near the coasts of West Africa and America he quickly assumed the office of Captain and successfully secured a great value worth of Stolen Booty. What makes more of an impression was that he did not engage in piracy until much later in his life and yet achieved so much. Would you therefore agree his earlier life as a legitimate sailor allows him to be viewed as a favourable character of decency? I believe that Black Bart was killed during a battle with the British Navy in 1721. Is this correct?

Actually I agree with your analysis. It is such a misleading statement. I've read that "History is written by the winners" is a generalized adaptation of a quote that is only attributed to Napoleon: "History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

It is often cited 'History is written by the winners' - Would you agree?

We have to remember Pirates lived in a brutal era when life was short and oppressive. Many would argue that the Navel commanders at the time were excessive with punishments and made a bad man worse. It was almost kill or be killed in piracy that caused men in an adverse situation to hold semi respect for one another. Blackbeard killing one of his men for fun was partly his sadistic nature and partly to instil fear in his other men. Pirates only remained infamous because of their extreme nature and to remain at the top of the pecking order they needed to ensure that all the men directly under them feared enough not to try and oppose their will. Yet is their exploits that fascinate us!

Could you say that decency in piracy can be attained by state sanctioned piracy? For instance their was John Ward an Ordinary sailor for nearly fifty years suddenly in 1603 turns to piracy and leads many of the men in the navy of James I to defect. I believe he stole one of James I vessel and later came under the protection of the Ottoman Empire’s outpost located in Tunisia. I also believe he reached legendary status in Europe as most other pirates did. Yet you could argue he was semi decent to his men and they all benefited from the wealth he acquired at the expense of other nations. I am sure the Ottoman Empire also benefited through his loot. As they say ‘One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist’.

A Smuggler's Song by Rudyard Kipling If you wake at Midnight, and hear a horse's feet, Don't go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street, Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie. Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by! Five and twenty ponies Trotting through the dark - Brandy for the Parson. 'Baccy for the Clerk; Laces for a lady, letters for a spy, And watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by! Running round the woodlump, if you chance to find Little barrels, roped and tarred, all full of brandy-wine, Don't you shout to come and look, nor use 'em for your play. Put the brushwood back again - and they'll be gone next day! Five and twenty ponies … If you see the stable door setting open wide; If you see a tired horse lying down inside; If your mother mends a coat cut about and tore; If the lining's wet and warm - don't you ask no more! Five and twenty ponies ... If you meet King George's men, dressed in blue and red, You be careful what you say, and mindful what is said. If they call you "pretty maid", and chuck you 'neath the chin, Don't you tell where no one is, nor yet where no one's been! Five and twenty ponies ... If you do as you've been told, 'likely there's a chance, You'll be given a dainty doll, all the way from France, With a cap of pretty lace, and a velvet hood - A present from the Gentlemen, along o' being good! Five and twenty ponies ... Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie - Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by!

I was always under the impression that Pirates also engaged in the Smuggling rings. They often sold their goods stolen to these communities. So are you saying Foxe that we should separate the two into different categories? So how would you separate Pirates from Smugglers? I was always under the impression that Smuggling was done by pirates separate to the community in which they did their dealings with.

Spam Fritter and Chips a must have!

I can see your argument in relation to certain places benefitting more than the people who traded there. It was adverse taxes which allowed piracy to flourish further in places like Robin Hoods Bay. I am sure the Pirates benefited from the extra support gained by the community alongside their silence. However some would argue that fear could also play a part in the communities’ silence. I am sure the retribution inflicted by these pirates would be extreme if the community spoke out to the authorities about their clandestine activities. Yet despite all this I would still say some pirates may have helped the communities they smuggled to. The pirates would have tried to prevent at all costs the Riding Officer seizing the contraband from the community. They may have offered protection to the community they did business with. Pirates often shared their loot they seized from other ships they raided with their crew so this could be seen as decency and mutual respect. They needed one another to sustain their activities. Some would argue that pirates lived by an unwritten code of conduct however this is conjecture. I suppose you could argue they were decent to each other as long as they did what was asked at the time. They had to earn each others respect. I suppose it depends on your interpretation of decency!

Just reading some of the comments in relation to proving the decency of Pirates. Pirates were self indulgent thrill seekers that lived by the culture and expectations of the day. We all like to accuse pirates of creating havoc on the waves by plundering and in some cases killing other sailors which were in residence in the unfortunate ships that passed by. Yes they may seem at odds with our expectations of decency yet they had to live in a brutish age. Some of these Pirates came from those sailors that were press ganged into joining the ships. You could also argue later piracy during the 17th-18th Century was greatly aided by communities disgruntled by heavy import taxes levied by the British government. They supplied the demand for cheap imports of tea, brandy etc that the communities required. They also made some places like Robin hoods Bay Nr Whitby very rich as a result. These communities which were aided by piracy would consider these pirates as Heroes whereas those riding officers that tried vainly to uphold the law were despised outcasts. I personally believe pirate legacies outweigh those sailors who abided by the Law.

I suppose it keeps the british tabloids busy. They have to make a living by selling news!

I was saddened to hear of Michael’s death. He had no personal life or a childhood so he was troubled from the start. I hope he now receives some peace. Michael Requiescat in Pace! I was fascinated by the image impressions given by CaptainSatan. How did you produce these? – It is like something from a forensic detective programme!