Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 What do you think is best... Monmouth, Thrum or Peter the Great? Kristie Bukland's Hats Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I've got one of Kirstie's Peter the Greats. Lovely hat, but I'd think a bit out of date for GAoP. I also have one of Practical Goose's thrums https://pyracy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=514 that I do wear for 18th C. I'm not sure about it. I've seen some references in the period, but I'm not sure I trust them. It's a wonderful hat in foul weather, though. The Monmouth would seem to be the most neutral choice. They are definitely documented to 18th C and you'll get far fewer comment about 'that thing on your head'. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 First off, if you're looking for good authentic hats then Kirstie Buckland's are fantastic. Monmouth: basic, fine for almost every period. Quite possibly the "cap" which is mentioned in so many period documents. Thrum: IMHO the best hat ever devised for seamen. they're warmer than your average knitted cap, waterproof (to a point), stay on in the wind, and they look fabulous! Dead authentic for pirates, they're mentioned in Johnson's General History. Peter the Great: fantastic for Tudor. Not sure why she calls em "Peter the Great" hats, but she presumably has a reason - and that would make them spot on for period. You might also look at the Hakluyt cap on her page, it's a fairly generic seaman hat. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 The thrum is also in TONS of the period engravings we know and love. I was thinkin of getting one meself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I'll second (or is it third?) the thrum cap!!! And I'll ask... what sort of hat is our Dutch sea captain wearing here??? My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 My personal belief is that they are all good for our period. She calls the one "Peter the Great" because when the Russian Tsar visited London and the Low Countries (1698-99) to learn how to build his Navy he, was so taken with this English mariners cap that he bought one and took it home with him. She based it off of the original survives in the Hermitage Museum, Russia. The cap is tall in the crown rising to a rounded top. It has a double knitted down sloping brim about 45mm wide. Black John... i say that is a Peter t G hat! Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 That's what I was thinking too. However, if memory serves, this cap is described as being cloth, lined with fur. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 It's funny when you look at Hogarth and other period artwork, so many of the commoner hats are utterly nondescript and devoid of any detail that would give us a clue as to it's type. I bet there were thousands of variants of homemade ill-fitting knit wool caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Agreed. That's why I think the monmouth is probably the most generic of the knit hats. There's also this option http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=254 In an engraving or woodcut, it would be hard to tell the difference from a knitted cap. Wasn't aware of the Thrum references in Johnson. Must have missed those, but it's been a while since I read it. The Peter the Great still seems a bit OOP, to me. I've seen a lot of references to similar hats earlier in the century, though. One of the speculations is that a number of the hats from the mid17th C that look like the high crowned puritan hats may actually be knitted versions. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 LOL Hawkyns - I ALMOST ordered that exact linen cap from Jas. this morning!! I had it in my cart and was about to check out, then figured I'd hold off awhile. I'll order it sometime.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 Well I don't know. I mean, there either is or isn't a knitted cap in the Hermitage that PtG brought back from the England in 1699. If there is, than I would say its an option. I think the biggest drawback is that it about twice the price of ta Thrum or Monmouth (from Kristie Buckland anyway. Hawkyns How do you like the Thrum from Practical Goose? I got an unsolicited e-mail from them asking to put a link to their hats on my pirate resources page. She claims (in the e-mail) to be the Kristy B of the US. I am interested to see her prices. GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 Well I don't know. I mean, there either is or isn't a knitted cap in the Hermitage that PtG brought back from the England in 1699. If there is, than I would say its an option. I think the biggest drawback is that its about twice the price of a Thrum or Monmouth (from Kristie Buckland anyway. And its in Pounds Stirling (with a crummy exchange of almost 2-1). Hawkyns How do you like the Thrum from Practical Goose? I got an unsolicited e-mail from them asking to put a link to their hats on my pirate resources page. She claims (in the e-mail) to be the Kristy B of the US. I am interested to see her prices. Josh (if you are looking for a period knit hat, Practical Goose says they are going to the Pirate Feast with some stock) GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Reealllly?! Cool! I'll have to bring some extry cash with me then. Want me to pick one up for you too? I didn't know there would be sutlers there...that's neat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 I don't think there are going to be suttlers there... per se. They just said that they were bringing a sample of Practical Goose stuff and if there was anything in particular..... I PM's you so watch your mail! GOF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I agree that the hat in the picture there looks like a Peter the Great. Regardless of the material I think that shows that the shape isn't too obviously anachronistic, even if the Russian original is mislabelled or whatever. I'm surprised that the PtG is more expensive than the thrum cap, when I last spoke to Ms Buckland she told me the thrum cap was her most expensive hat... Hawkyns, if memory serves there is a reference to thrum hats in Johnson's Anstis chapter. It is used as a wig substitute for the judge in the "trials". I'm pretty sure there's another mention too, but I can't think where off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to read it all just to find it. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I think you're right Foxe - the engraving that accompanies that story shows a whole gang of rogues wearing what look like Thrums. I love that little slice of pirate life, btw. Very funny stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi I found these in nice blog http://ranawayfromthesubscriber.blogspot.fi/2010/10/thrum-cap.html " On October 13th, 1737, shoemaker Peter Saunders advertised in the Pennsylvania Gazette for his runaway servant Thomas White. White's head was shaved by he wore a thrum cap and a felt hat." One more thrum cap appearance in early 18th Century. I wonder was the cap used as a wig since the servant had both the thrum and other hat And how it reminds me of this https://pyracy.com/index.php?/gallery/image/5844-thrum-cap-twins/ "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privypiper2002 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Im looking at the hat thread here and I have a question. two additional caps come to mind, let me know if you think they are correct. The liberty or voyager cap, I have also seen them called phrygian caps that date to roman times. Are they correct for GAOP? That and the oh too hollywood striped or boson Smee type cap? Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The voyager cap with the tassel or the pom on the top is a more modern invention, but the design is based on a French tuque or toque, which has no tassel , pom or adornment. The tuque was commonly worn by women from the 12th century onward as a working cap, but men began wearing them as traveler/voyager caps in the late 17th century. Now, they do enter service among men earlier than this, because Basque whalers of the Sixteenth-Century used them as whaler's caps. Again, they are like tall monmouth caps that lay over on one side of the head with no tassels or adornment. This may be the earliest connection between this type of hat and the sea. Early whaler's caps are also plain and have no tassels or poms. Fancier voyager caps become more common during the French fur trade of the mid 18th century onward, but plain ones are period for the GAoP. Be careful about color. Red is most common from the mid 18th century forward. Blue is most common in the 19th century, so choose more subdued and natural colors for common caps. You can find a good pattern for a basic basque whaler's cap here.... http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/sixteenth-century-basque-whalers-cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The phrygian cap is from Roman antiquity. The hat reappears about 1790 in France as a common, outward symbol or revolution. It is most commonly known as the bonnet rouge and was adopted in the colonies during that revolution as well. I don't know of any GAoP usage for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privypiper2002 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thank you sir. Great guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 You're welcome. If you need a few suggestions for knitters, just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madPete Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 You're welcome. If you need a few suggestions for knitters, just let me know. PrivyPiper2002 - I can bring a Monmouth cap from William's source, to our meet up if you want to see and feel one mP Aye... Plunder Awaits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privypiper2002 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Please do. We can meet at the AZ ren fair for Pirate weekend. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 My monmouth cap came from Gentleman of Fortune (the man who started this very topic). It's an excellent hat and I was glad to get one for my kit. http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/The vast majority of the crew to which I belong has purchased monmouths and thrums from Kristen Wilkinson. She makes excellent hats to order and she's working on my Whalers Cap. I keep monmouth caps and gunnister purses from her in stock for all the events I attend. Pete can attest to the workmanship/ http://www.etsy.com/shop/KnitKriket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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