Ship of choice

[hitman]

My curiosity is runnin wild Whats you're favorite if other please post.

[Paisley]

i wouldn't care what kind os ship, as long as it's filled with treasure!!

[Hawkyns]

Tops'l schooner. Small, fast, shallow draft, but with enough deck to hold a 6-8 gun broadside. Everything else listed is too big. I wouldn't want to get into a broadside battle so I wouldn't need the weight of iron that the other ships listed would carry, and the only need for a bigger ship is to carry more iron.

No, I probably couldn't take on the larger ships, but it's a point of diminishing returns. You can take a bigger ship with more spoil, but if you have a bigger ship, then you have a bigger crew and your shares are proportionally smaller. Same result with smaller ships and smaller crews, but with less risk.

Hawkyns

[the Royaliste]

I be fine wif' the one I 'ave!!..Outsails most brigs an' schooners, will sail to windward o.k., an' outguns most her size due to a lack 'o gunport doors.......At seventy some feet, I kin manage her in most weather, an' sail in an' out 'o line warfare....... :)

[Zorg]

Im with you, Master Hawkins

Give me a sloop of war anytime.

Something that will sail reliably on a wet tile floor.

Z

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

I'm with the Captain on this one. The larger ships we battle bog down in the water and the Royaliste (she's a gaff-rigged ketch) zips around them, stinging them like a little hornet!

About the only time we are at a disadvantage is if they are motoring, as the larger commercial charter tall ships are equipped with much more powerful motors.

If we're going historic, my dubloons are on the Royaliste (or the equivalent) every time. She's very similar in her proportions to the Black Prince, the privateer that was commissioned by Benjamin Franklin and who had a near legendary record for taking British prizes.

And the more swivel guns on deck, the better. The Black Prince had 30 swivels and 4 deck guns. By the by, I did an article on Ben Franklin and his 3 privateer ships, which should be in the next issue of No Quarter Given.

[hitman]

Aye I did list the big lasses didn't I couldn't help it . I have to admit I listed em because I love that giant spread a canvas. I am a little suprised to see a lack of love for the galley it could out run any of the other ships and distance itself even further by rowing into the wind. Course one good broadside and you're left with tooth picks. FYI I picked the wind jammer the last of the great tall ships and set up so you could drive round the horn with a class 4 gale at your back ( I wouldn't wanna do it though). Hate to admit it but I must conceede defeat for a pirate vessel she's just too big but then at 255 I'm no light weight me self.

[the Royaliste]

"Bloody 'eck!!..We'll tackle 'em all sizes!!!

The Nippon Maru, over 110 meters o.a.!

[Matty Bottles]

Just wondering: with no diesel, how many hands do you need to control the Royaliste?

[Red Maria]

Tops'l schooner.  Small, fast, shallow draft, but with enough deck to hold a 6-8 gun broadside.  Everything else listed is too big.  I wouldn't want to get into a broadside battle so I wouldn't need the weight of iron that the other ships listed would carry, and the only need for a bigger ship is to carry more iron.

No, I probably couldn't take on the larger ships, but it's a point of diminishing returns.  You can take a bigger ship with more spoil, but if you have a bigger ship, then you have a bigger crew and your shares are proportionally smaller.  Same result with smaller ships and smaller crews, but with less risk.

Hawkyns

I always thought it wasn't the size of your ship but what you did with it that mattered. ;-)

I have heard of pirates with small sloops taking on much bigger vessels. :-)

Personally I'd take what ever I could get my little hands on!

[El Pirata]

Battleship out of the question?

[Hawkyns]

That would be a ship of the line, EP, a First Rate 100 or better. Huge and slow to maneuver, and one bloody huge crew.

Shares might be a bit small

Hawkyns

[Red Maria]

Bigger ship, smaller shares .. Hmm... Now that's when size really matters!

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

On the question of how many hands it takes to sail the Royaliste- it's all relative.

Gary has actually sailed her single-handedly, which is quite a feat! So technically I guess you could say 1, but obviously, that is less than ideal. Usually Gary likes to have at least 3 experienced hands at a minimum. More is better though.

Generally if the weather is good, the issue isn't sailing per say, but getting her in and out of her slip.

Coming back in, it requires that we bring all 70 feet of her in through a narrow opening in the sea wall at a very awkward angle, because we have to make a hard and immediate turn starboard into the slip, without hitting the sea wall or the dock, or catching things like the dock's satelite dish or their lines with the bowsprit! Then, the second that turn is made, we have to halt 30 tons of ship in motion, before she hits the Orca, Gary's other ship.

Getting out of the slip requires us to back out and "snap" her straight to make the sharp angle, using the stern line.

(Captain, please make whatever corrections you have to the above descriptions.)

[El Pirata]

That would be a ship of the line, EP, a First Rate 100 or better. Huge and slow to maneuver, and one bloody huge crew.

Shares might be a bit small

Hawkyns

Yeah but think of the heavily fortified cities you could take out singlehandedly... Booty galore!

[the Royaliste]

Hmm, pretty durn close, 'Quill, 'cept'n that'd be an aft spring line, not the stern line...It's more relevant to how well armed your prize is, not so much your size.. Pacific Manila Galleons weren't even carryin' cannon for a hundred years or so!!..Same wif' Acapulco, 'n other New Spain holdings..So, even a small well armed ship could whip bloody 'eck outta the treasure ships!

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

So Cap'n... ye' be a-sayin' that size doesn't matter?!!!

[Matty Bottles]

Thanks for the info. The biggest vessel I've ever sailed was an eighteen-foot catamaran. Not exactly a grand pirate vessel. Of course, my boy scout troop only got a fifty-foot vessel AFTER I moved. My old Scoutmaster, a hairy-nostriled Manchunian with a serious excelsior complex, the sort of man upon whose back was built the British Empire, has no qualms sailing with his teenage (and younger) crew from Chicago to Traverse City(!), the Edmund Fitzgerald notwithstanding.

[crow]

Tops'l schooner. Small, fast, shallow draft, but with enough deck to hold a 6-8 gun broadside. Everything else listed is too big. I wouldn't want to get into a broadside battle so I wouldn't need the weight of iron that the other ships listed would carry, and the only need for a bigger ship is to carry more iron.

No, I probably couldn't take on the larger ships, but it's a point of diminishing returns. You can take a bigger ship with more spoil, but if you have a bigger ship, then you have a bigger crew and your shares are proportionally smaller. Same result with smaller ships and smaller crews, but with less risk.

Hawkyns

I have to agree with mister Hawkins small and fast not to much freeboard , a harder target to hit and she would easily out sait and outrun any of the bigger ships mentioned .

[hitman]

Couple a points here some just for fun others for the sheer joy ofit.

1 Crow none of the ships (Top sail schooner included) could out run either the moonrakers (who unless some of the raceing rigs have beaten it in the last two years still holds the record for longest distance sailed in a day) or the galley. One praticular form of galley (correct me if I get its name wrong) the trimrine???? held the speed record for any ship in the med until the arrival of the fast steam engine.

2 Hey imagine this take a wind jammer and add half a dozen 100 pounder armstrong breech loaders per side then go and ransack Paris!

3 Hey I really appreciate the posts all

[Scupper]

I think I'd take a Tern Schooner. They were fast and able vessels that could catch a merchant vessel and still have the size to scrap in a fight ship to ship.

Scupper

[crow]

Couple a points here some just for fun others for the sheer joy ofit.

1 Crow none of the ships (Top sail schooner included) could out run either the moonrakers (who unless some of the raceing rigs have beaten it in the last two years still holds the record for longest distance sailed in a day) or the galley. One praticular form of galley (correct me if I get its name wrong) the trimrine???? held the speed record for any ship in the med until the arrival of the fast steam engine.

2 Hey imagine this take a wind jammer and add half a dozen 100 pounder armstrong breech loaders per side then go and ransack Paris!

3 Hey I really appreciate the posts all

Well master hitman I think that you should have been a little more timeline specific when comparing sailing vessels . I thought that you were refering to vessels used in piracy or suitable for that use. I believe the greek vessel you were refering to was the Trireme and they were in use about c.480 B.C. in the Med and yes they were very fast . As for the clipper ships that is true clipper ships they hadn't really evolved untill after 1849 the first true clipper was the Rainbow designed by john Griffiths and built by Smith and Dimon of new York . Unless you were refering to the Baltimore clippers but they hadn't been developed before 1812 . But the baltimore clipper wasn't really considered a true clipper , both forms of the clipper having been developed after the golden age of piracy I am not sure that this would be considered a valid comparison .

And as mister Hawkyns said to big a crew makes for to small a share. Not that Pyrates aren't a generous sort ..

[Coastie04]

I'd have to go with small, maneuverable, fast, and well armed with a small, but experienced crew for most piracy, but it would all depend on your style. Different methods of taking the enemy ship, along with differing naval activity and prey preparedness would change the vessel you wanted. Some pirates used long boats and raided ships in the harbor. As long as they knew how to fight, and could sneak up to the ship in the middle of the night, then they could take it and either sail away, or steal cargo/money. For ransacking towns, a large ship and large crew would probably be usefull. A larger vessel that can be minimally manned is more intimidating, and can carry more pirated cargo. The smaller vessels usually had a thinner hull, and thus may not survive the broadside of a naval vessel that cornered them or lured them in to range. It's all about the tradeoffs.

Coastie

[hitman]

Agreed me should a been more specific, but if you dont mind me saying the Trireme( thank you) was used in piracy as well as many other forms of galleys. Not only in the golden years of fighting sail but before them as well. The trick to them was to approach your opponets in a dead calm and storm them. Escape was always handy as you could row at high speed directly into the wind defeating the power source of the purseor. This slight discretion aside I take your point and that of Hawkins quite seriously the use of smaller vessels by pirates for all the reasons stated is not only the way it was, but the best approach. As to my listing of the larger vessels it was as I stated before a long love of the big girls on my part that got them there but also a curiosity if the choice was up to you would you take one as your ship.

[the Royaliste]

So Cap'n... ye' be a-sayin' that size doesn't matter?!!!

"Hmm, ain't sayin' that at all!!!..But when it comes to a fight, e'en a big 'n with no cannon be easy pickins'!! :) (although factually, a lot of Pacific pirate attacks were turned around by the intensity of the small arms fire).

'Size'--mebbee, at least a minimum

'Overall performance'--everything!