Milamber Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 What was the outfit of the typical pirate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 More info needed-what year and where? What's your status- cabin boy or ships officer? Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 For photos of accurate reproduction seamen's clothing from the 16th and 17th centuries got to Bonaventure and have a look at the gallery page. All the clothing shown is copied either from contemporary pictures or surviving original clothes. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milamber Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 more of a cabin-boy or a deck swab etc...(low ranks i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Probably the best way to start - after deciding what historical era you want to portray - would be to then determine how the merchant seamen (or if you're to be a deck hand, even the enlisted Naval personnel) of that era dressed. Pirates were sailors, when all was said and done. If you want to be authentic, keep that in mind. Of course, if you want to be fantasy, don't let that stop you! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captian Wolfy Wench Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hmm, historical accuracy is a tricky bit. If ye have no idea what period/area yer tryin' to recreate, pick up a few films and see. I don' reccomend copyin' costumes from films, however; just use 'em as a way to get some ideas flowin'. Then ye can pick up a few books, or go online and check out some costume recreators and costumes fer sale. For weapons and such, I reccomend the same route and research yer way into the popular pistols and swords of the time. Low-ranking seamen typically didn't have all that much to wear: a pair of old breeches, shirt, belt, etc. Pirates WERE sailors, as Capn William said, so it's not so much a step from cabin boys, clothin'-wise. Good luck, and tell us what becomes of yer costumin' adventures! Captain Wolfy Wench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Sailors slops, cut appropriate to whatever decade of whichever century you are attempting to portray. Liberaly stained with tar, and cleaned in urine for the super-authentic minded When all said and done, as has been pointed out, they were common sailors who had taken up brigandinge on the high seas. If you base your kit around the common sailors clothes, and then look to your weaponry, and a piece or two of exotic gear, you will likely come close to the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 When I think of it, I'm having a hard time finding evidence for sweaters, or what we would know as sweaters. Anyone have info on styles of sweaters, and what they would have been called? I know the romanticized Carribean Pirate probably had no use for sweaters, but in history, what style of sweater would sailors have worn? "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 While this is not about sweaters it is of interest in regards to sailors dress during the 18th c. . There is an article in Colonial Williamsburg magazine about 18th c. dress codes. There are lot of photos of people in very accurate 18th c. garb and an illustration of a period sailor. There also mention of a sailor who was an indentured convict servant who ran away and what he wore. Very typical garb for the period. you can see the article online at: http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/...thing.cfm#webex It's interactive as well so you can see the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milamber Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 good stuff, thanks for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I wear a sort of "nautical sweater" as my Baratarian garb; well. it's wool, but really more of a short jacket than a sweater. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 There's a sort of short jacket you can get at http://www.jastown.com/coldgear/wj-155.htm Is that the sort you mean? I've seen those, and they look comfortable, but I'm wondering if the knit thing we know as a sweater existed. I'm sure it did somewhere, but I wondered if it was common in Europe or the americas around 1700. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 They did exist, but they are generally refrred to as knitted shirts and were worn under, rather than over your other shirt. Knitting history is one of those subjects that the needleworkers will argue about more than religion and politics, but there are examples dating from the late 16th C. Not many examples, both because they are are not as stable and don't last as long as woven material, and because woven material was more common. I have both a knitted wool undershirt and a woven wool undershirt, that I can wear under my linen shirt. Over that I have either one of Townsend's blanket wool shirts or one of Barkertown's short workman's jackets. And before you ask, yes that means wool against the skin. I grew up with it, not a problem. Most people's wool allergies are not to the wool, but to the chemicals it is processed in. If you can get raw unprocessed wool or yarn, and get someone to spin it and knit it for you that will work pretty well. Otherwise check for the most natural yarn you can get. Go to natural fiber merchants or places that specialise in spinning and knitting supplies, NOT Joanne's. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Thanks for the sweater and wool info. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Aye, Bloody Jack: that be the very jacket I wear, septin' mine is blue. And I wear it with a blue yoyageur's cap, like the mate in the picture. :) Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I was reading in "The Wooden World An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy" (OK it a little late for pyrate, but close enough.....) and this part caught my attention...... " Except for disguise, seamen scorned to wear landmen's cloths, and their best clothes were more elaborate and fancy versions of their working rig, with white duck instead of canvas trousers, silver buckles to their shoes, brass buttons on their jackets, coloured tape along the seams, and ribbons in their hats" There are more descriptions of sailors clothing in the book, but I got thinking about sailors "best shore-going rig" Now this is speculation.... But as a pirate..... if my shirt was worn, and my trousers had holes in them.... and we just took a merchant vessle.... why not help myself to some of the clothing that would be stored below in the sea chests... and why not grab the more "elaborate and fancy versions"? Another question.... I read someplace that sailors would embroder their clothing ... but I can't figure what designs they would use (anchors...? Skulls and crossed bones would be interesting..... but I don't think very period...) I tried doing a web search.... but didn't find anything...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 For good advice and pics, go to Gentlemen of Fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 People's clothes getting worn through and their having to steal finery from other ships is something that has come up a couple of times recently on various boards I visit, and it's prompted me to some thinking and some research. First off, in the question of finery we have to ask how many sets of posh togs there were afloat in any one area at any one time, compared with the number of pirates who might steal it. With that in mind I think it's a fairly poor reason for pirate re-enactors to dress above their station. Secondly I got to thinking about what men actually took to sea with them, ie how likely they were to need new clothes. I looked at quite a number of wills and the like from the late 17th and early 18th century and they mostly showed similar stuff in similar quantity. One of my favourites was this list of gear left on board the Pearl Galley by Thomas Powell, a foremastman in 1736: "one gray coat, wastecoats and two pair of breeches, one pair of olave coloured cloath breeches ... one Pee jacket, one thick flannel jacket, four shirts, some flanel wastecoats, two pair of flanel draws, four pair of stockings, two pair of woolen mittens ... two new frocks [possibly seaman's smocks], one half worn frock one pair of thin canvas trowsers, one pair of blew and white striped cotton ditto, one pair of ticking breeches, one cotton cap, one woosted cap, one brown holland wastcote... I've not included the possession which weren't clothes - which included a parrot btw - but I don't think Thomas Powell would have needed to go stealing clothes until he was put ashore in Africa with only a shirt, waiscoat, cap, hat, pair of trousers and his shoes. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Foxe...... A lot of interesting thought in your post... With that in mind I think it's a fairly poor reason for pirate re-enactors to dress above their station. I'm not talking about dressing above their station..... (such as wearing a long coat.... Justicorp ... landsmen's long cloths...) but taking the good "going to shore" seaman's trousers or shirt..... when pirates attacked... I don't think the other crew was wearing their best "going to shore " clothing.... that would be stored in their sea chest (...) below deck..... next ..... two pair of flanel draws, arn't" Draws"....... underclothing...... I thought at the time.... well there wern't any..... your shirt tails acted as such..... interested in info about this....RATS..... can't copy and paste where I wanted it....... I wanted this befor the last part..... OH WELL.... . Secondly I got to thinking about what men actually took to sea with them, ie how likely they were to need new clothes. This is interesting..... I have about 6 pairs of black jeans (well they are not blue.....) they are about two year old... and all six pair are wearing out on the right thigh about the same..... I figure the same problem would happen then..... so have some "work" cloths..... then your "good " clothing..... (I haven't had a reason to wear my good suit in over three years... but I don't "go to shore " .......(didn't type out right...... hope you get the idea) Anyway.... as a pirate.... I have two pair of worn trousers...... (wondering if I'd have a sea chest with my good clothing in it....But we will ignore that for now..... ) and I now have the opertunity to get some new clothing....... Do I take his worn work clothing...... or his "good" stuff...... I copied and pasted the guote..... but where was that from originaly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Some interesting points Patrick, I see what you mean about not meaning people dessing above their station. Either way actually I think a long coat would be fine for a sailor on shore. Not necessarily what many would have chosen to wear, as NAM Rodger says seamen liked to dress like seamen, but certainly I think one or two would have done. I certainly take your point about the jeans, and my only comment really is that I think people tended to repair things much more than we do now. If you were a pirates or other seaman in the 17th century you'd probably sacrifice one pair of jeans to make patches for the other 5. BUT as you say, if you're clothes are wearing through and you have the opportunity to steal someone else's, why not? I'd like to see some primary source information really though I think. The quote comes originally from a court case in which Thomas Powell is trying to recover his property, and is reprinted in "Sailors; English merchant seamen 1650-1775" by Peter Earle, an absolute must for anyone wanting to take pirate portrayal seriously. I picked that quote because I like it, but others show similar things, for example the list of effects belonging to the late gunner James Bearcroft and sold at the mast in 1750 ...one hat, two pair of white stocking, two chequered shirts, two white shirts, ... one old blue coat, one green cloth waistcoat with gold lace, and a pair of breeches, one old cloth coat, white coat and breeches, and one wasitcoat, one chequered shirt, a cloth waistcoat and breeches, ... pair of stockings, ... one gold laced hat, three white shirts, two pairs of stockings, one old white shirt, a white coat, pair of breeches, 2 pair of stockings, ... three pair of old stockings, black wasitcoat, pair of breeches, ... two pair of draws, 4 pair of stockings, ... two old white shirts, a pair of draws, 5 old pair of stockings, ... four stocks, a cap ... The other interesting thing about that source is that we can get a rough idea of the value of second hand clothes from it. For example, Richard Dobbs, an able seaman, paid 18 shillings for "one chequered shirt, a cloth waistcoat and breeches, wig, pair of stockings and handkerchief". An able seaman in the RN in 1750 was paid £1 4s per month (28 days) so those purchases cost Dobbs three weeks pay. I have no idea when the idea that men didn't wear underwear in times gone past comes from but the evidence makes it pretty clear that they did. There is an incident in the Memoirs of D'Artagnan written in 1700 in which Aramis soils himself before a duel and is forced to go and buy a new pair of draws, and there are of course other examples such as the two lists of clothing I've quoted here. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 If you were a pirates or other seaman in the 17th century you'd probably sacrifice one pair of jeans to make patches for the other 5. Funny thing..... that IS what I'm doing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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