Capt'n Kidd's Flag

[Captain Jim-sib]

I have a bottle commission for Capt'n Kidd's Adventure Galley from a direct relative (as they say...and I'm not questioning...though their last name is "Kidd"). Does anyone have a description of his flag when he turned pirate with this vessel? Due to a recent move, many of my resource books are in storage, and I have not be able to pinpoint a description on the web.

Thanks & best regards

[Capn_Enigma]

[..] I have not be able to pinpoint a description on the web.

The reason for this is that a description has not been passed down upon us. Any description would be pure speculation.

[Captain Jim]

"What did Captain Kidd's pirate flag look like" is actually a trick question. Kidd had a privateer's commission and never thought of himself as a pirate and therefore would have sailed under the colors of the commissioning country, England. That having been said, he is reported to have flown the French colors to lure the Quedah Merchant into range, a ship under the protection of the French government and therefore arguably a legitimate target.

[Fox]

In the early 20thC some supposed fragments if Kidd's black flag turned up, but since the first time we hear of them they were being sold to a credulous collector of Kidd memorabilia it is fairly safe to assume them to have been fakes.

As Jim says, Kidd would have flown under the St. George's cross of England - somewhere I have a reference for this, but I can't think where offhand.

It's also possible that he flew a long red naval pennant with a Union flag at the hoist end. Technically this was illegal, but a lot of privateers did it anyway to make themselves look more like naval ships. After Kidd's time this became a more of less recognised privateer flag, and by the mid 18thC was often referred to as a "privateering pennant".

He probably flew other flags at times - he flew a false French flag as has been noted, and I'd be prepared to bet that he had a red flag aboard for flying in battle.

[Captain Jim-sib]

Many thanks to ye all. After readings Capt'n Jim's line, I recall the French Flag trick from the book Pirate Hunter. Twas going to have a red pendant on her, and was opting for just a black flag on the aft flag pole. Miss me books. Will have to build shelves for them...yet m'lady wants a new kitchen. Shall post a photo of the bottle when completed.

Best regards

[Captain Jim]

One last note: why not have a French flag flying and an English flag on deck and started up the yard? 'Twould grant you an opening for a little history lesson.

[Fox]

If you're going for historical accuracy a black flag of any design probably isn't the way to go. Although black flags are recorded surprisingly early they didn't really become THE pirate flag until well after Kidd's career was over and hunged with. There's certainly no evidence to my knowledge of Kidd flying a black flag, and no particular reason why he should have.

[Captain Jim]

Exactly. Go with the two flags and capture historical accuracy in a bottle.

Hmmm...Bottled accuracy...I could sprinkle some on the next Jack Sparrow I see, see if it makes his bucket boots disappear.

[Captain Jim-sib]

Thanks greatly.

Now I just need to empty the bottle...alas, the hardest

thing about doing these!

[Matusalem]

More information can be found in the book 'The Pirate Hunter...The True Story of Captain Kidd' by Richard Zacks (Theiabooks.com). I bought this book last may, and I highly recommend it.

Sorry to say, but on page 43, Zacks wrote:

"Pirates rarely sailed under the black flag with skull&crossbones, and certainly not in the17th century. They generally opted for a ruse de guerre, ad used a flag of some country likely to lull the intended prey into sidling closer. If that failed, pirates in this era hoisted a simple Bloody Red Flag (Jolie Rouge...aka Jolly Roger), the succinct notice to the merchant vessel that any attempt at fighting free would result in death would result for every single person aboard."

As for me, personally, I'm inclined to disagree with the author because of the evidence of other pirates such as Jack Rackham, or Thomas Tew, and that a part of me refuses to believe what Zacks says.....however, every other vainglorious thing known about pirates , Zacks pretty much does say about Kidd, right down to the bling-bling clothes.

[Fox]

Actually Zacks if pretty much right. We do see both skull and cross bones designs and black flags in the 17thC, but neither are common (I can think of ONE skull and x-bones pirate flag prior to 1700), and the great age of combining the design and the colour to make the classic pirate flag wasn't for a couple of decades after Kidd's time.

Incidentally, although their supposed flags are often shown in books there is no evidence that Tew or Rackham flew a black flag either. Their flags are fictitious creations of the 20thC.

[BILLY BONES]

One reason the fragments of "Kidd's" flag that have turned up in the last 40 years are considered bogus, is that they are all black material. They seem to go along with the Kidd seachests that have the skull and crossbones on them. Probably produced by someone who had little feeling for the time period, or Kidd's aversion to being considered a pirate.

[Captain Jim-sib]

Links to the finished item, the Capt'n Kidd's Adventure.

Me thanks to ye all who helped with the flag item. Yes, I just used

a solid red penant on the main mast.

Best regards to ye all.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/2go...se/100_3372.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/2go...se/100_3371.jpg

[flying-dutch-man]

[..] I have not be able to pinpoint a description on the web.

The reason for this is that a description has not been passed down upon us. Any description would be pure speculation.

yes,he be right.i i found out that a picture has not been found yet but i did do a search just in case and no luck.but,maybe hopefully this year we will have a picture this year or next....

[Hawkyns]

Hey Ed- first reference I've seen to the 'privateer's pennant'. Got chapter and verse on that by any chance? Especially references dealing with late 17th c.

Thanks

Hawkyns

[Fox]

In 1694 a proclamation was made that once more forbade the use of Union flags by ships not of the Royal Navy; merchant vessels were permitted to fly “The Flag and Jack White, with a Red Cross, commonly called St. George’s Cross, passing quite through the same, and the Ensign Red, with the like Cross in a Canton White at the upper Corner thereof next to the Staff, nor any kind of Pendant whatsoever…”, in addition, “all such ships as have Commissions of Letters of Mart or Reprisals, shall besides the colours which may be worn by Merchant Ships, wear a Red Jack, with the Union Jack, described in a Canton at the upper corner thereof next to the staff”. The order was repeated in 1707; “Our Royal Will and Pleasure is, That all such ships as have Commissions of Letters of Mart or Reprizals shall besides the Colours or Ensign hereby Appointed to be Worn by Merchant Ships, Wear a Red Jack with a Union Jack Described in a Canton at the upper Corner thereof next the Staff”.

So, the regulations made no provision for a pennant for privateers, but we get occasional references to privateers using a pennant - most famously Woodes Rogers was told to remove his pennant at Kinsale on the eve of his cirvumnavigation, because as a mere privateer he wasn't entitled to one. In the mid-18thC we have an interesting incident when smugglers were reported to be disguising themselves as privateers, who were in turn using the pennant to disguise themselves as naval vessels... "Boats wear a pendant and pretend to be privateers, but we apprehend are smugglers." (Letter Book of the Comptroller of Poole Customs House, 9 September 1758.)

Later on in the century, the shipping line of T & J Brocklebank became the first of only two British shipping companies to fly their company flag on the fore-mast, because the usual space on the main-mast was reserved for their privateer pennant.