Religion during the GAoP

[Rateye]

Now I hope not to cause problems. But seeing that many wars have been cause over such a topic, and the character I'm working toward is a bit of a nefarious doctor, I'm also wondering about religion during the GAoP

Seeing that pirate crews were made of folks from many different backgrounds, you would have to think there was quite a bit of either tollerance or problems.

Any ideas?

Rats

[Cheeky Actress]

You bring up some good points, Rateye...

From the time of Cromwell to the 1730s or so there was a lot of strife between Catholics and Protestants. And I am sure that there are several books out there that could go deep into this topic

I just currently finished a book on the over-all social climate of the times. It's called, "Restoration London: Everyday Life in the 1660s". This really gave some insight into 'everything' a person would encounter in their every day lives. There was a chapter on religion

[Rateye]

Sounds great!

I'd love to hear more?

Possibly bring to Bristol or post some interesting bits?

R

[Cheeky Actress]

Well, the whole book was very good...

There were topics on marriage, childbirth, social class, prostitution, death...you name it...they had it!

[kass]

Just make sure you take anything that sounds like the author's opinion (any sentence that starts with "I...") with a grain of salt. Liza Picard is wonderful at gathering together resources of the period and presenting them in an easily-digestible whole. But whenever she starts, "I can't imagine..." this or that, she just belies her knowledge of feeling of the period. She's a great reporter. And an editorialist, she should keep quiet.

Oh and Cheeky, that tension between Catholics and Protestants didn't end in the 1730s. It lasted well into the 19th century. But, of course, for our purposes, we stop caring about it.

[Cheeky Actress]

Hi Kass,

Yes, you are correct about the strife between the two religion going on for much longer (and earlier, for that matter) than the GAofP, but as Rateye mentioned, and as you stated....we were only focusing on the GAofP time period.

Kass, what other book do you know of, concentrated on the social climate of this time period. Restortation Londan was one...but for the life of me, I cannot remember the other one to save my life.

[Red Dog]

In Ireland the strife between Catholic and Protestant lives to this day. It's just covered up in PC/BS.

There was a lot of dissension between the Christian and Muslim factions as far as piracy was concerned but the pirates being declared the "Enemies of the human race" seemed to transcend the religious boundaries.

A common factor for many pirates was the escape of authority, to include the church. Don't forget that the early Spanish Main was conceded to the Spanish and Portuguese by the Pope and the Northern European pirates went against him by attacking the Spanish.

Religion was as much a factor in piracy as tyranny was.

Eustace the Monk is an interesting case study. He used Christianity to give a holy meaning to his actions. Rebellion, deception, and the book of Revelations was a great weapon for him.

Conversely the Muslim pirate would force Christians to convert to Islam, or "Turn Turk" vs. being executed.

this is a truly involved subject, I look forward to continuing this thread.

[kass]

Kass, what other book do you know of, concentrated on the social climate of this time period. Restortation Londan was one...but for the life of me, I cannot remember the other one to save my life.

Do you mean1700: Scenes from London Life by Maureen Walker?

[Capt. Sterling]

Hey Rats,

If this is concerning your impression, being a doctor you could read, so checking things out for yourself by actually reading the bible could have made a very big difference in your life...

remember during the time frame many folks could NOT read, so they had to depend on the honesty of the word coming over the pulpit... i.e, to really understand the religion of the times, you need to know the preachers of the times and what they were spouting, what were their adgendas and if they really believed what they were teaching/preaching or just using their "job" as a means to power and influence.

Then study their effects on their congregations... did the folks get what was being told them and did they practice it, or were they just sitting there shaking their heads...

Tons of people claimed to be "Christian, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim" and didn't have any clue what it was even all about... even today just because a person says they are, doesn't mean they truly are...

[kass]

This is pre-GAoP, but in the reign of Elizabeth I, moralists advocated the education of women with the idea that children received their first religious training from their mothers. If the mother couldn't read the Bible, she couldn't teach them properly.

[Capt. Sterling]

This is pre-GAoP, but in the reign of Elizabeth I, moralists advocated the education of women with the idea that children received their first religious training from their mothers. If the mother couldn't read the Bible, she couldn't teach them properly.

Now that is very interesting! Certainly not what one would expect... ties in well though, with "the hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world!"

[kass]

It wasn't everyone saying this, mind you. But there was one moralist in particular who was quite vocal on the subject, Thomas Beccan in a book called The Catechism (published in 1559). Also JL Vives, tutor to Mary I, wrote a book entitled The Education of a Christian Woman in 1532 which dictated that girls should only be allowed to read serious moral writings and not Ovid or romances. I find it interesting that he was tutor to Mary I, later known as Bloody Mary, who was famous for her cruelty and violence in trying to convert her father's kingdom back to Catholicism. Guess those "moral" writings didn't work so well...

[Rateye]

Actually the reason I asked is because of the methods of treatmet that were accepted by each religoin might be different.

I had read about the aversion some had toward cinchona ( a treatment for malaria which as seen in Port Royal, had helped the good Capt. Sterling ) also kinown as Jesuit's Bark or as the commoner's dubbed it the Jesuit's Poison.

I was therefore wondering if there were other areas or even prejudices that might be interesting.

"I don't want that catholic butcher tending to me!" kind of stuff for not only persona but also for Port Royal storylines.

Rats

[kass]

Don't know specifically, Rateye, but I think we can make some assumptions based on politics of the time. When Charles II died in 1685, his brother James II ascended the throne. Unlike Charles, James II was Catholic and was determined to change the religion of England back to Catholicism. He was driven off the throne by 1688 and William of Orange, a Dutch Duke, was brought from Holland to rule. Shortly thereafter there was instituted a law that said no monarch of England could be Catholic.

So even though they weren't burning them in the streets or beheading them in the Tower as they were in Elizabeth's time, Catholics weren't very well looked upon in the GAoP.

I have no idea if Catholic and Protestant doctors would use different treatments, though. I really don't know anything at all about medicine of the time.

[Fox]

Completely O/T, but the very steps which William of Orange ascended on his first landing in England are a spit's distance away from my work. In fact, when I walked the plank at the first SWPF I climbed out of the harbour up the same steps. Nobody made me King though

[Cheeky Actress]

Yes Kass,

That's the other book that I read also, "1700 ..."

Good sound stepping stone kind-of book for this time period. I learned a lot from it.

[Cheeky Actress]

This is pre-GAoP, but in the reign of Elizabeth I, moralists advocated the education of women with the idea that children received their first religious training from their mothers. If the mother couldn't read the Bible, she couldn't teach them properly.

Really?!? Interesting insight...especially for the women of that time period.

[kass]

That's because you're actually English, Ed. Everyone knows that you can't be English and be King of England! You have to be Welsh or Scots or Dutch or German...

[Capt. Sterling]

That's because you're actually English, Ed. Everyone knows that you can't be English and be King of England! You have to be Welsh or Scots or Dutch or German...

Precisely, what does being English have to do with ruling the country???

[Red Maria]

Don't know specifically, Rateye, but I think we can make some assumptions based on politics of the time. When Charles II died in 1685, his brother James II ascended the throne. Unlike Charles, James II was Catholic and was determined to change the religion of England back to Catholicism. He was driven off the throne by 1688 and William of Orange, a Dutch Duke, was brought from Holland to rule. Shortly thereafter there was instituted a law that said no monarch of England could be Catholic.

So even though they weren't burning them in the streets or beheading them in the Tower as they were in Elizabeth's time, Catholics weren't very well looked upon in the GAoP.

I have no idea if Catholic and Protestant doctors would use different treatments, though. I really don't know anything at all about medicine of the time.

Don't forget Queen Mary! Remember she was James II daughter from his first marriage. She was a Protestant. William was The grandson of Charles I by one of his daughters. The whole country was pretty much against another Catholic coming to the throne. In fact after that Glorious Revolution that brought William & Mary to the throne it became illegal for anyone other tham a member of the C of E to sit on the throne of Great Britain.

[kass]

Oh yeah. Can't forget Queen Mary! If it weren't for Mary, William of Orange would not have been able to rule England. She had a much stronger claim to the throne than he did.

There's a great book called "Ungrateful Daughters" about Mary and her younger sister Anne (who succeeded William and Mary) and how they kinda sold out their father, James II. Hell, I always thought Jamie was a weinie anyway!

And they were BOTH grandchildren of Charles I. Ewwww... Cousins marrying...

[Capt. Sterling]

Wasn't William a Dutch Calvinist?

[kass]

Not a clue. Didn't dress like one at least.

[Mission]

Completely O/T, but the very steps which William of Orange ascended on his first landing in England are a spit's distance away from my work. In fact, when I walked the plank at the first SWPF I climbed out of the harbour up the same steps. Nobody made me King though

Good lord...just to think of it!

Here's a bit of pirate religion for ya'! From The Memoirs of Pére Labat 1693-1705, translated and edited by John Eaden.

"This pirate [Captain Daniel], finding himself short of food between the Saints [Les Saintes or Iles des Saintes, south of Guadalupe] and Dominica, wanted some chickens, and knowing that there were plenty to be had in the Saints, dropped anchor at these islands during the night. Since it was peace-time, no watch was kept on shore, so it was easy for the pirates to land and seize the curé's house and other houses as well.

The pirates then conducted the curé and the settlers they had captured on board their ship, and posted men to guard the church and landing-place. They were kindness itself to the prisoners and explained that they only desired wine, brandy, chickens, and other stores. After they had collected these items the pirates asked the curé to say Mass on their barque, and he was unable to refuse this request. They sent for the church ornaments, and put up and alter on the poop under and awning, and then chanted Mass lustily. A salvo of eight cannons marked the commencement of

__

the service, they fired a second salvo at the Sanctus, and third at the Elevation, a fourth at the Benediction, and lastly a fifth after the Exaudiat, while the prayer for the King was followed by the most hearty 'Vive le Roi'.

Only one incident slightly marred this ceremony. One of the pirates adopted an offensive attitude during the Elevation, and on being rebuked by the captain, he replied insolently with a horrible oath. Daniel promptly drew his pistol and shot him through the head and swore by God that he would do the same to anyone else who showed disrespect to the 'Sainte Sacrifice'.

Quite an effective method, as one perceives, to prevent the poor fellow from repeating his offence.

When Mass was over, the body was thrown into the sea, and the pirates rewarded the priest for preaching on board the ship." (Labat, p. 221-2)

This is also another example of disposing of the dead by throwing them in the water rather than burying him on land - even when burying on land was easily done, although the pirate's offense may have had something to do with that. (However, Labat gives several examples of this throughout his text, so perhaps not.)

[Littleneckhalfshell]

Since the topic is 'religion' I offer the following, apparently from the 1680 census.

http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/portroyal.html

""It is also said that religion was nonexistent in Port Royal but in fact the census data shows otherwise. When it came to religion the town was indeed a "wide-open" town. Just about every major religion was present in Port Royal, including, Catholicism, Judaism, Quakers, Anglicans, and Atheist. Most of the groups had fled England (except for Anglicans) during one the repressions of their religious beliefs and settled in Port Royal just as had happened in England's other American Colonies. Because most of the French Buccaneers were Catholic, the English governors were extremely tolerant of non-Anglicans. It wasn't until the usefulness of the buccaneers had passed, that wide scale persecution of non-Anglicans started taking place. Most likely, the early criticisms of the lack of religion within the town of Port Royal came from supporters of the Anglican Church.""