Gentleman of Fortune Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I started this project back in November. As an Olympic quality procrastinator, I am surprised I got it done so fast . Of course, 5 days in the hospital really helped as I had nothing to do but watch German soap operas.... at least the nurses were hot.... Anyway, I took my sewing project and actually finnished it. I was inspired by this and these I thought that the no pocket option was pretty interesting. Some short jackets seem to have buttons all the way down, others don't. I got tired of sewing button holes. Speaking of sewing. I have sewn a pair of petticoat trousers.... and that is about it. I made the pattern myself from original artwork, and hand sewd the hole bloody thing (even the lining). Its one of those cases where, "if I can do it, so can you!". But I would suggest skipping a 5 day hospital stay. I just so happen to have a pile of original GAoP buttons, so on they went! I really got to practice those button holes... I took a closeup of the best one. I have bought Kass's Common mans coat, and I am really interested to see how close my interpretation is to her pattern. More pictures of short jackets here http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/sailor-coat.htm GoF aka Greg Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Greg, it's GORGEOUS!!! I think you'll find my interpretation is very close, most likely since I've been looking at a lot of the same pictures as you have. The pattern still has some info to contribute, however, even to someone as well-read on the subject as yourself. There are a handful of extant jackets from this period that I used to develop the pattern that will add depth to our understanding of what common men wore in this time period. So dont' worry. Your greenbacks (or whatever you use over there) won't be wasted. But your interpretation is spot ON! Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Thanks Kass But my main concerns are my construction methods. It may look ok, but what I am looking for is seeing your pattern and discovering all those "aha!" moments. As in Aha!, that is how it was supposed to go together. I have very limited stitches in my arsenal, and I am sure that the ones I chosed to use in particular places are not necessarily the ones 1710 tailors would have used. I basically costructed the short jacket as two garments.... That wasn't the prpblem, it was figuring out the best way to join those two garments that gave me the problem. Sooooo..... I can't wait to see your patterns and all the cool bonus stuff on extant garments that seems to be the signature for Reconstructing Histories Patterns. Thanks Greg aka GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Oh I see what you mean now, Greg! In the textile industry, what you did is called "bag lining". You basically make two garments -- one outer material and one lining -- and sew them together. In the 17th and 18th centuries, this wasn't the way things were lined. Although I can think of one garment in particular in which an older garment was stuck inside a newer garment as a lining. But this was not the usual way. You see, it has a lot to do with machine sewing versus handsewing. Although you hand sewed your jacket, you think like a machine sewer. You followed construction techniques that you know because your modern clothing is made that way. Even if you've never sewn on a machine, we modern people tend to think in an assembly line kind of format. We invented this construction in the 19th century so things could be made entirely by machine. They lend themselves well to the modern method of assembly line mass production. You may have used the same stitches (some of them are just too simple to muck up), but your whys and wherefores might have been different. It's hard to think as an 18thc tailor when you're not an 18thc tailor. Different things were important to them. The biggest difference between then and now is that labour is expensive nowadays and fabric is cheap. Back then fabric was expensive (and I don't mean $50 a yard expensive; I mean the equivalent of your annual salary expensive) and labour was cheap. So tailors would go out of their way not to waste a centimeter of fabric. It didn't matter to them how long it took to finish the job. To us, time matters alot. The historical notes on this one are going to be some of the most extensive I've ever written. So enjoy! Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 THAT IS IT EXACTLY!!!! I "think" that I am fairly decent and seeing details, and even "pattern drafting" in a sense that I can see the original garment, and get a fairly decent interpretation of the cut/design. Where I fall flat on my face, however, is that I don't even think like a 21st century tailor as I am not a tailor at all.... So I use my best guess, with some historical stitches, to get to the end product. If you look at the pictorial record, you will see LOTS of different "styles" of short jacket or "common man's" coat. So, in theory there could be several different authentic "patterns" for this coat and others, BUT, The construction method should be the same. gof Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hee hee! I swear to you, people: I don't pay him for this! The last thing I want is for everyone to follow my patterns slavishly and there to emerge a kind of "GAoP sailor's uniform" whereby everyone is wearing the exact same clothing in different colours and fabrics. I know pattern companies whose clothing you can spot across a parking lot! That's just not how historical clothing works. There should be variation. There should be differences. Different people should make different choices. I try to include those choices in my patterns. And I try to give even more choices in the historical notes for those adventurous souls who want to depart completely from what I've wrought. Actually, Greg, you're probably better off not being a 21st century tailor. The most difficult people to teach period techniques to are experienced modern sewers. They have too much to "unlearn" before they can start thinking about things from a period point of view. They tend to say, "That doesn't make any sense" alot... This is why I encourage people who want to realy learn about historical clothing to make one item entirely by hand at some point. It really has nothing to do with authenticity or historical accuracy. It has to do with experimental archeology and learning through doing as they did. I teach this class called "From the Inside Out" that is about getting into the period mindset. Once you understand the mindset, you can make better choices about what your character would do and not do. And you don't have to quote Defoe or Pepys every time you want to speak. And I'm not laughing at your pattern drafting skills. It takes a special kind of brain to see something in three-dimensions and distill that down into how you have to cut the fabric in two-dimensions to get that shape. Not everyone can do that. You do it quite well for someone who's never been taught. Good work, man! Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Very nice GOF. What do you do while sewing so you don't loose your mind? How often did you work on the jacket and for how long each time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 He was in the hospital for five days, Jib, so I expect the answer is "morphine". Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Wow Greg! Very nice indeed!!!!!!!!! When you feel up to it, let's see pictures of it on... How many hours do you think it took actually, not counting buttonholes? Hope the ankle is feeling a bit better. Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Matt Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 If only I had sewing talents....and some extra money.....maybe a little bit more talent. You will be flogged. And God willing, come morning, you will be flogged some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 If only I had sewing talents....and some extra money.....maybe a little bit more talent. It's not the talent (it's easy to learn how to sew....) and it dosen't realy cost that much.... it's just the TIME that it takes.... well ....and the information..... When I made my 1706 slops contract jacket, I drafted my own pattern (does kinda help that I make animal mascots for a living...) OK... so that part is "tallent", But that's what patterns are for (if you can't draft your own...) A few yards of lining, and a wool blanket, and some embrodery floss for the button holes..... all hand finished.... but it's kinda like making a model, or any other hobby... the time spent is part of the fun.... But I might have to get a copy of Kasse's pattern when it comes out, just for the information ...... Anyway, here's a photo of my guess at it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Sorry for the long absence.... Ankle broke, moved house, no phone and no DSL now I am back visiting the folks till August. Anyway. How long did it take. Good question. I probably did everything the hard way, but excluding pattern drafting. Probably 40 hours. I have never undertaken a large project like this and it was an education to say the least. When I get back home, I am going to start another using Kass' Pattern and I am expecting to do it in much less time. The really time consuming part is all the freakin button holes. I probably did 12 as practice on pocket flaps.... the button holes took me about 30 minutes each (on average). And GAOP clothes have TONS of button holes. The trick is taking it in little bites at a time... like eating an elephant. Greg Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Going from the advice and wisdom gleamed from both this thread and the other thread about the Common Man's or Sailor's jacket and using the Reconstructing History pattern RH 705, I have made a jacket for myself. It took about 20 to 25 hours spread out over two weeks (although I didn't pay too close to how much time it took). I did hand sew everything (including the button-holes). The jacket outer shell is constructed of green modern canvas/duck cloth, and lined with a brick red 100% linen (plain tabby weave). I used some brass buttons I found at the local JoAnns.. The size is accurate based on what research I could do on the internet concerning period buttons, although the posts on the back (which are invisible anyway) are not consistent with the period examples I could find pictures of... Here's how it looks... Now I'm going to work on some other projects... And maybe in a month or so, I will try another made from 100% wool... I have some blue wool in a tabby weave, or some grey in a simple twill that I am debating between using... Love to hear what some of you think about the jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarborMaster Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have several coats., all to my own design.,and all made by others at my request on machines and of non period materials. I have reasons for this actually....., However I must say I am impressed with all 3 coats.., the skill and determination of the makers ..,attention to detail .,original materials., it doesnt get much better than that . Ya., you guys are awesome ., Bravo. I am not Lost .,I am Exploring. "If you give a man a fire, he will be warm for a night, if you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Michael, It looks awesome! You did such a good job. Cotton duck isn't the best material for this jacket, as I'm sure you learned while working with it. But you did a fine job. When you make your wool one, I'd advise using the grey twill. Kneejerk reaction here, but grey kersey (which is a twill) was specified in the Slop Contracts (although blue was a common colour for sailor's jackets too). Uh oh... Did I just make an arguement for both sides again? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward T. Porter Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Great Jacket! Cant hardly wait to get my patterns from kass and beginn with my own jackets... I will make one from yellow (mustard colour) wool and one from hemp canvas found a shop on german ebay who sells hemp canvas for a really good price Is this kind of collar an included option in the pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yup. The collar is in the pattern, Bela. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Michael,It looks awesome! You did such a good job. Cotton duck isn't the best material for this jacket, as I'm sure you learned while working with it. But you did a fine job. When you make your wool one, I'd advise using the grey twill. Kneejerk reaction here, but grey kersey (which is a twill) was specified in the Slop Contracts (although blue was a common colour for sailor's jackets too). Uh oh... Did I just make an arguement for both sides again? Thanks to everyone for your compliments... There actually was a reason for my using cotton canvas/duck cloth on this... but I won't get into that... And your arguments in favour of both the grey and the blue wool are not helping Kass! The main reason I'm reluctant to use the grey wool is it is a very even grey (not mottled as the Kersey looks in the photos on your site), where as the blue is slightly mottled and a bit more natural looking (although possibly a bit dark for a period accurate blue).... Then there is also a chance I might use something altogether different (I still have some ochre/mustard coloured wool that is slightly fulled in I beleive a taby weave, and I picked up some medium brown worsted herringbone when I was in Canada last weekend.... On clearance for $5/yard!) Far too many decisions for my poor little brain to make at this moment.... I think I am going to do something simple like a period shirt first... then maybe I'll have a stab at a wool jacket... I didn't base the jacket off any existing extant samples, or any specific art and went with something generic and customized o my tastes... Which is why I added the collar, and pockets (I am a pocket freak, I always think I need more)... I also like the "poor man's" turned back cuffs with the contrasting coloured lining showing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Turnback cuffs are definitely seen in the period pictures, Michael. No shame there! And pockets -- they're even specified in the Slop Contracts. I'm sorry for waffling about the fabric. I can never choose. I want one of each! I guess that's why my attic looks like it does... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The main reason I'm reluctant to use the grey wool is it is a very even grey (not mottled as the Kersey looks in the photos on your site), where as the blue is slightly mottled and a bit more natural looking (although possibly a bit dark for a period accurate blue).... Then there is also a chance I might use something altogether different (I still have some ochre/mustard coloured wool that is slightly fulled in I beleive a taby weave, and I picked up some medium brown worsted herringbone when I was in Canada last weekend.... On clearance for $5/yard!) Far too many decisions for my poor little brain to make at this moment.... Just make three! (I've lost count of how many sailor's jackets I have... I don't even want to think about it ) Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Kass, you should never appologize for waffling, or at least to me you shouldn't... I am the king of waffling on decisions! Although the thought of having both a blue and a grey jacket is appealing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 and pockets (I am a pocket freak, I always think I need more) Pockets.... my Jacket has.......... two my waistcoat has....................... two My slops and trousers have...... two So I have a total of ..............six pockets ...... plenty of places to put everything except the dang tankard..... (but that's another thread...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hmmm... Patrick's comments have stirred a couple of questions that have been knwing at the back of my skull for a while... Waistcoats... Were they worn with the short style of jacket? I know Reconstructing history sells a long waistcoat pattern, but it looks like the long waistcoat would be too long to fit under the short style of jacket, and hence just look funny or otherwise be impractical... Maybe I should have posted this question in the thread about waistcoats.... If a moderator thinks it appropriate please feel free to move this post to that thread... I've read a bit about the hanging tankard thread... Wish I could offer some useful advice or help with that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Short answer is yes, we certainly see waistcoats under short jackets, but they tend to be short waistcoats. Waistcoats are listed in the ASC specs, and in the slightly post-GAoP set of specs (which are essentially the same as the earlier sets, but with more detail) the waistcoats are a couple of inches shorter than the jackets. They are also seen in the pictorial record. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As usual, Foxe said it best. That's why the Reconstructing History Waistcoat pattern (RH704) includes a short waistcoat sized to fit under the RH Sailor's Jacket. :) Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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