Matusalem Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I know a magician never tells the secret to his tricks, however, can anyone help me with the last and final bit to my period outfit. I am having trouble trying to figure exactly what material the neck scarf ideally should be and how to wear it, if it is ever worn. I see some period photos with, and some without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cat Jenny Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I believe is is more related to plain sailors but adopted or "carried over to pirates, KASS would know. Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 A neck scarf could be made out of linen, either plain, checked, stripped... also made of a rough cotton cloth... That's what I've beel able to find and have... In the thread, "You in yer garb" you can find an image of me wearing one of mine in a red check pattern... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 We start to see neckcloths on period pictures of sailors in the 1620s(ish) and they go right through to the 19thC. They are certainly very common in the GAoP. As Dorian says they can be plain or patterened, and linen is by far the best thing to make them from. Cotton would be ok but much much less common, so it depends on how accurate you're trying to make your kit as to whether you'd want to use it. If this is the last piece of your outfit... we expect photos! Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Thanks guys for covering the material from which a neckcloth should be made. One more point -- if you make it out of linen instead of cotton, you'll find it's both more comfortable on your neck on a hot day and more functional for mopping up sweat. Cotton tends to get "swamped" -- the more it absorbs, the more droopy it gets and then it sticks to you (think wet T-shirt!). Linen has longer fibres and tends to stand away from the skin, so airflow is increased. Plus it really is a better fabric for wiping sweat from your brow and neck. This is one of the reasons household "linens" were made out of linen until quite recently -- linen is a better fabric for cleaning. Until the advent of disposable toweling and "Swiffers", linen was the thing. Did I mention you can get some really inexpensively at Fabrics-store.com But I digress... Now, to make it: The neckcloths (probably called "handkerchiefs" in the period) are typically a triangle. To cut a perfect triangle, cut a square and then cut the square from corner to corner. Now you have two neckcloths! BONUS! Roll hem the edges and you're done. And to wear it: Depending on how big your triangle is, you could just tie the neckcloth around your neck in a square knot with the right-angle corner pointing down your back. But in GAoP pictures, the neckcloths don't look that big in the back. So you have to roll them. Rolling provides even more insulation and stops sweat from running down your back. To roll your neckcloth, fold over the long edge (the one you cut from corner to corner when it was a square) about 2", fold it over again, fold it over again. You can fold it until you have nothing but a strip, or you can leave a bit of triangle showing. Put it around your neck over your shirt. If your shirt has a fold down collar, put it over BOTH layers (in other words: don't fold the top layer over the neckcloth -- it should not show). Tie the ends in a square not. Now this is not a neck stock. Stocks were long strips of white linen that were wrapped around the neck and tied. They give a bit of a "mummy" look to the neck. Neck stocks are typically only seen on Captains and men of rank. I might mention that this information is based on extant Pennsylvania German clothing discussed in the book "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" by Gerhert. The clothing is much later than the GAoP (1750s-1780s), but the neckcloths are the same that we see in pictures of sailors in England in the GAoP. So until I can examine some GAoP English neckcloths, this is what I advise. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 gee and I thought nice soft cotton rope would work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Don't ya mean hemp rope... tied in a hangman's knot? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I might mention that this information is based on extant Pennsylvania German clothing discussed in the book "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" by Gerhert. Rats.... never read that one..... I always though that a neckscarf was a squaire of cloth folded diagonaly into a triangle..... But I think I'm basing that off of something about Longhunters that I read years ago........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 And there's no reason why it couldn't be just folded in half, Pat. But the ones in the Chester County Historical Society are all cut in half diagonally, and I find they lay nicer if you do them like that. But really, since we don't have any GAoP seaman's neckscarf "specifications" or extant examples, it could go either way. :) Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Dammit! I'm sure I have a picture of a seaman whose neckcloth appears to have two points, suggesting that it's a square folded in half, but I can't find it and I think it's post GAoP anyway Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matusalem Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Thanks Red Cat Jenny, RumbaRue, Dorian, Patrick, ands especially Foxe and Kass. Now I have a better insight. I have a couple of yards of some linen solid, which I dyed crimson, and some chequered cotton, but the chequered cotton looks a bit like the shirts that civil war reenactors use ( small 1/4 inch 4mm wide plaid like weave). Now, I'm not sure whether to leave the ends frayed for effect . Foxe asks about me in pictures.....well, this will take a few days, which I promise I will post right here when I return from the Key West festival. No turning back now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 It rather depends on whether you're going for an authentic look or a Hollywood look. If you're going authentic then hem the edges - these are your clothes, you're gonna take care of them. If you're going Hollywood then by all means leave 'em to fray. Chequered fabric is ok for GAoP - the ASC specs list check shirts and drawers for example, but cotton isn't great. And about magicians telling their secrets - that's precisely what this forum is for! Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I agree with Foxe. Hem those edges, Matusalem! But I would wear the red and white cotton until you can find something in linen. The checks sound alright to me. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Don't ya mean hemp rope... tied in a hangman's knot? Shhhhhhhh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matusalem Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 Nothing beats a columbian necktie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I thought it was a Sicilian necktie? Ew... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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