[Captain Midnight]

I've been thinking of making a sailor's sheath knife based on historical patterns, and was wondering if any of you might know of any extant originals to use as reference? I'm looking for a plain, utilitarian single edged knife that would have been used for chores and whittling and such aboard ship, not a double edged dagger or anything like that. I've Googled it, and have come up with pretty much nothing. I've found plenty roach bellied trade knives and their like, but that's not exactly what I'm looking for. I would like the knife to be appropriate for the 17th or 18th centuries.
Have any knives ever been turned up archaelogically which were specifically seaman's knives? Perhaps from the Whydah wreckage, or the Queen Anne's Revenge, or any other ships? Can anyone help me out? Thanks so much in advance!

[MorganTyre]

Somewhere I've seen reference to a sailor grinding a knife from a broken file and I've thought of doing the same for some time. It's good steel, could be made razor sharp, but would still have the rough hewn look of something purpose made. The sailors knives I've had experience with rigging range from being very blunt ended to being completely squared off like a straight razor. With the exception of stabbing something there is almost nothing that a dagger point is good for on a tool (which is how a sailing knife should be seen) that can't be done better with a marlinespike which would also be a neat do-it-yourself metal or woodworking project. The knives are a little thicker and heavier than a typical pocketknife and in one case was ground as a perfect wedge all the way back to the back. The knives I'm talking about are all 19th and 20th century though so they are just a general guideline. However, having used one quite a bit they are the perfect tool for the job.

[Captain Midnight]

Thanks for that, Morgan. Yes, the blunt or very dull-pointed knives are exactly what I am referring to. Are there any pics anywhere of historical knives such as this? I've also seen them referred to as "rigging knives", "deck knives", etc., and described as being used for such chores and crafts as marlinspike, etc. But I'm trying to tie this style to the historical record before I actually craft one and use it along with my pirate impression. Plus, I'd like to replicate an actual GAoP blade, or at least one that was very close to the time frame...

[MorganTyre]

I wish I could be more sure of the time frame. I'm positive it was a well established style in the 19th century. I've seen several photo's of ones of that era. The grind a file down also came from the 19th century. Anything older though and I'm afraid you'll run in to the same dilemma that I did when trying to research serving mallets which is that for something as banal as that there just doesn't seem to be much info. I'll post this question over on Brion Toss's website. He's the closest thing to a celebrity as you're likely to find in the rigging industry and he has done alot of "traditional" work and he or someone there might know. I also have some local sources here in south texas who might know. I'll post again in the near future.

[Captain Midnight]

Ok, thanks for your help, Morgan. I look forward to hearing what you are able to turn up. So far, I havn't been too lucky. I'd be interested in seeing photos of the 19th century knives as well, if you were able to post them. I'm sure they didn't make very drastic changes over the years...

[Brit.Privateer]

If you want some info and a picture of a sheath knife, William Gilkerson's book "Boarders Away" has a good section on knives, including sheath knives. My article I recently wrote in the Age of Sail and Piracy '101' project also includes a section on knives.

[Captain Midnight]

Brit.Privateer, on Aug 17 2006, 06:44 AM, said:

If you want some info and a picture of a sheath knife, William Gilkerson's book "Boarders Away" has a good section on knives, including sheath knives. My article I recently wrote in the Age of Sail and Piracy '101' project also includes a section on knives.

Privateer,
Do any of the pictures show a "sheeps foot" blade (down-sloping point) like modern rigging knives?

[adam cyphers]

would this be suitable as a boat knife?with some ropework for a handle ...maybe with a small brass guard?

[adam cyphers]

now for a sheath

[Dorian Lasseter]

http://www.knivesand...ilors-knife.htm

I've found this knife, reputed to be relatively unchanged for centuries...
Looks like a common sailors sheath knife to me, alright...

Edit:
Same knife, more or less...
http://www.worldkniv...167113-145.html

http://www.asmc.de/e...or-knife-p.html

This post has been edited by Dorian Lasseter: 26 May 2010 - 01:34 PM

[William Red Wake]

adam cyphers, on 26 May 2010 - 11:14 AM, said:

now for a sheath

A bic lighter with a picture of a drinking glass on it, a rainbow pencil with the caption 'FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO", and a broken blade fashioned into a sailor's knife. That picture speaks volumes and I want that knife.

[Red Cat Jenny]

No no you can't have it William I want it.and one of those others as well :)

[adam cyphers]

i am fully capable of another mates...matter of fact im off to the smithy now;)

[Red Cat Jenny]

hmm..

[adam cyphers]

[bo'sun Carl]

I us a dexter russel "hammer knife" out of the McMaster Carr catalog they are cheap and efective, I haven't even broken one yet, I beat mine thru some heavy line with no ill effect. They are also one one of the few "sheeps foot patterns" that comes in a high carbon steel blades, they do sharpen extremely well!!!!!!! BUT THAT'S JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION.

[William Red Wake]

bo, on 17 June 2010 - 08:02 PM, said:

I us a dexter russel "hammer knife" out of the McMaster Carr catalog they are cheap and efective, I haven't even broken one yet, I beat mine thru some heavy line with no ill effect. They are also one one of the few "sheeps foot patterns" that comes in a high carbon steel blades, they do sharpen extremely well!!!!!!! BUT THAT'S JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION.

It's not true without pictures!

[M.A.d'Dogge]

William Red Wake, on 17 June 2010 - 09:36 PM, said:

bo, on 17 June 2010 - 08:02 PM, said:

I us a dexter russel "hammer knife" out of the McMaster Carr catalog they are cheap and efective, I haven't even broken one yet, I beat mine thru some heavy line with no ill effect. They are also one one of the few "sheeps foot patterns" that comes in a high carbon steel blades, they do sharpen extremely well!!!!!!! BUT THAT'S JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION.

It's not true without pictures!

near bottom of page....i think this is the one he's speakin of:

http://www.mcmaster....-knives/=7kuxd1

[William Red Wake]

Yes, but that's a drawing. Drawings do not do a good knife justice.

[Bos'n Cross]

adam cyphers, on 17 June 2010 - 12:34 PM, said:

wonder who thats for......

[adam cyphers]

not you bos,n...lol

[Captain Midnight]

My son once had a rigging knife that was very similar to the one Adam has made here. It had the same shaped blade, but it had maple scales pinned with brass pins to its tang. At the pommel end, the tang extended past the scales and was bent into a loop to accept a lanyard. The whole knife had a definite hand forged look to it. Here is a quick sketch of its profile, except for the lanyard loop, which I forgot to sketch. My question is, would this style of knife have been used in the GAoP, or the 1700's at all? Just wondering.

I forgot to add that the knife was not large. It had a blade of about 4-1/4" and its overall length including the handle was 8".

This post has been edited by Captain Midnight: 22 June 2010 - 04:43 PM

[adam cyphers]

just giving my reasons for shaping the blade the way i did...1. the originial shape of the rasp it came from was closer to this than a leaf shape or drop point...2.it is a old rasp...im SURE its older but the latest i can confirm this off the top of my head is early 1800s.3.i have been a smith for about 5-6 years now...if a sailor came to me i feel this would have been the end result..especially adding what SMALL knowledge i have of seamanship.the only thing i would change is to put a chisel grind on it...i would have w/ this one but wasnt sure of master crosses specific knowledge of said edge.the next one which i am doing for dutch will have a chisel gring on it as it facilitates cutting the line off w/ a straight edge w/ mallet/marlinspike and the knife in the traditional way.just wanted to give my reasons ...any questions just ask...

[Captain Midnight]

adam cyphers, on 22 June 2010 - 07:14 PM, said:

just giving my reasons for shaping the blade the way i did...1. the originial shape of the rasp it came from was closer to this than a leaf shape or drop point...2.it is a old rasp...im SURE its older but the latest i can confirm this off the top of my head is early 1800s.3.i have been a smith for about 5-6 years now...if a sailor came to me i feel this would have been the end result..especially adding what SMALL knowledge i have of seamanship.the only thing i would change is to put a chisel grind on it...i would have w/ this one but wasnt sure of master crosses specific knowledge of said edge.the next one which i am doing for dutch will have a chisel gring on it as it facilitates cutting the line off w/ a straight edge w/ mallet/marlinspike and the knife in the traditional way.just wanted to give my reasons ...any questions just ask...

Oh no! I'm not questioning your design at all, Adam! I love that design, and I love this particular shape of blade. I am simply wanting to know if it is ok to use it for the 18th century, because I would like to use a knife like that for myself as well.

[adam cyphers]

i know you werent friend...no harm done...i like the desighn better than the one i currently have...handles like a small cleaver...

[adam cyphers]

\
almost finished,,,

[Bos'n Cross]

yyyaaaaaaayyyy imma gonna kills stuff with it lolol.........

[matty short thumb]

adam, that looks fantastic!

[Jas. Hook]

Bos, on 28 June 2010 - 10:27 PM, said:

yyyaaaaaaayyyy imma gonna kills stuff with it lolol.........

Mr. Cross -
LOL Like a block of Stilton or Cheddar or perhaps a prune danish.
Bos'n, looks like you lucked into a very nice blade.


Adam -
Nice job! I like the pattern left by the rasp teeth and the antler handle.

Jas. Hook

[adam cyphers]

all finished...filed the high spots down...cleaned up the butt...and a tarred marlin turkshead...