Daniel Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 My reading suggests that when most people talk about a "pilot" on a ship, they mean a guy who lives in a port and, for a fee, will go out to your ship in a small boat, guide you out of (or into) the harbor, avoiding all the shoals and reefs and other dangers you don't know about, and then goes back to shore again in a small boat. He does not seem to be a member of any one ship's crew at all, but just helps any ship that needs him and is ready to pay, and doesn't normally voyage far from the harbor whose safe channels he knows. However, in James Clavell's novel Shogun, a rather different picture of the "pilot" is painted. It "was the pilot who commanded at sea; it was he who set the course and ran the ship, he who brought them from port to port. . . . At sea the pilot was leader, sole guide, and final arbiter of the ship and her crew. Alone he commanded from the quarterdeck." Now, I know Clavell made some errors about sailing in Shogun (he equips the ship Erasmus with a wheel in the year 1600, when whipstaffs were still used, and has the crew drinking grog 140 years before Edward "Old Grog" Vernon introduced that drink to the Royal Navy). So is this just another mistake? Or were there "pilots" who were actually part of the crew and navigated the ship from port to port? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Aye Lad, I do believe Clavell got it wrong... A pilot was/is one who knows a particular area, such as a port, and does what ye said, comes out to "pilot" a ship through th' trecheries of the local waters. Some pilots were well versed in larger areas, such as Selkirk (aka the real Robinson Caruseau), who was well versed in the Caribbean. Yer Nautical Milage May Vary... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I think Clavell probably had this right. All the accounts I've read of William Adams (the real Blackthorne) refer to him as an English pilot who is hired as pilot-major of the Dutch fleet heading for Japan. I think the term at the time was considerably broader than the way it is used later. The term "navigator" would be closer in our terms. A quick web search turns up several instances where pilot and pilot-major are used in this sense in the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Therefore what is the differnce between a pilot and a sailing master? Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully MacGraw Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I think a pilot was an expert on coastal cruising weather he had local knowledge or not. Capt. Drake captured a Spanish pilot and dragged him around the world In use to day, a captain pilots his boat down the coast and navigates across the ocean Those destined to hang, shall not fear drowning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Yes, I see that not only was Will Adams referred to as a pilot, but apparently also William Dampier served as a pilot to Woodes Rogers during Rogers' privateering foray against the Spaniards up the west coast of the Spanish Americas. So I guess pilots indeed are not limited only to the guys who help you get in and out of a harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Capt. John Smith says in his "A Seaman's Grammar and Dictionary" (1627) that "the MASTER and his Mates are to direct the course, command all the Sailers, for Steering, Trimming, and Sailing the Ship; his Mates are only his Seconds, allowed somtimes for the two Mid-Ships Men, that ought to take charge of the first prize." "The PILOT when they make land doth take the charge of the Ship till he bring her to Harbour." So, apparently in the early 17th century, Master and Pilot were two different officers, and Pilots were indeed part of the vessel's regular crew, rather than assistants hired-on for the nonce. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 As with most things nautical there can be as many different answers to this question as there are ships at sea. A pilot can indeed be a local man who joins a ship temporarily to guide her through a particular area, or he can indeed be a permanant member of the crew, the third officer if you like, responsible for navigation. In many cases it was the pilot who was responsible for navigation at sea as well as inshore. Perhaps the most successful English pilot was John Davis, who served as pilot on some of the most important voyages of his age. He sailed with Hudson to the North and Lancaster to the East, and is usually credited with being the discoverer of the Falkland Islands. Foxe Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Pilots are still in use today. Here in Portland, Maine we have a crazy busy harbor with tankers and freighters coming and going. There are local pilots (who may be Coast Guard, not sure) who take these massive vessels in and out of port. On a cruise to Bermuda a couple years back, when our ship made land we waited offshore for an hour while the pilot made his way out to the ship. Here is something I wonder about pilots from the days of old. In the 17th/18th century, was the hiring of a pilot a necessity for most every port? Once you've sailed your vessel to a port and watched the pilot bring 'er in and out again, couldn't you just take notes and do it yourself next time? I imagine that pilots were chiefly used for first time visitors to ports, eh? Does anyone know what they charged for services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longarm Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Here in Chareston we still have a pilots union and as far as I know all merchant ships must use them going in or out of the harbor. Remember every port is different with it's own dangers and traffic lanes. Conditions can change from day to day depending on the weather, tides or like Charleston which is the meeting of the Cooper and Ashley rivers flooding. Unless the port in question was the homeport of the ship and well known by the captain, it would be very unwise to use the local pilot only once. As for pay piloting was very competative, first captain of a pilot schooner who got his man on board usually got the job. Payment was negotiatable. Sometimes cash money was exchanged and sometimes a portion of the cargo would be used as payment. With modern navigation tools and computers and satellites pilots may soon become obsolete, and a whole way of life and history may disappear. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. To me it smells like....PIRACY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I dont know if pilots will be going obselete any time soon. The reason for this is simple even today virtually all major harbors have piolts the reason is you have to not only operate the vessel through the everchanging dangers of a port but you must also bring the massive ship to rest without killing everyone on the dock. The proplem with replacig this with moderen tech is simple ...... who's at fault when something goes wrong? It sounds stupid I know but this is the reason that automatic piolt isn't avalible in your car yet. As far as history goes I haven't gone father back than the late 17th century but it appears from that time forward the term pilot was simmiliar to todays use of the word. THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRehab Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 As the grandson of a Boston Harbor Pilot I can tell you a bit more about Pilots. Those of you who venture forth on the sea know that the greatest danger is usually not the sea, but the hard bits around the edge. Many ports require that a pilot be aboard before the ship enters the port. The pilots are captains with detailed knowledge of the navigational hazards of a particular port. Once when a pilot in training was taking the exam for pilotage of Boston Harbor the examiner asked him "Do you know where all the hazards in Boston Harbor are?" The trainee responded "No, Sir." The examiner then asked "Well how do you then expect to operate as a pilot in these waters?" to which the trainee responded "I know where they aint!" I understand he passed the exam. The pilots would stay on station aboard a pilot schooner awaiting the arrival of a ship. For Boston Harbor these schooners were frequently on station near the tip of Nahant outside Boston Harbor and in deep water. The pilots would be put aboard the incoming ship and would assume the responsibility for bringing the ship safely to the dock. During WWII the pilots were also sworn in to the Coast Guard (I believe with the rank of Lt. Cmdr or Cmdr.) so that they would be able to operate on Naval vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 So yer grandsire was a pilot in Boston Harbor? From what I understand Boston Harbor is a hellish sort of place for ship traffic, no deeper than thirty feet and frequently less than a third that. I understand there are islands that are only islands during high tide, whereas during low tide they are peninsulas connected by spits of gravel. If ever there was a place in need of a pilot! Yer grandsire must have had some stories to tell. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRehab Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Aye there is plenty of nasty ground just waiting to rise from the depths and snatch a passing ship. I remember in the late 60's I think it twas that the USS Kennedy ran aground out between the Graves, and Calf Island, on halftide rock I think. My Gradfather cursed the stupid rules that placed an inexperienced navy harbot pilot aboard rather than an experienced Boston Pilot. As for me I am sad to say that I have touched bottom a couple of times because I let myself be distracted. The problem is that the bottom I touched was granite, and not mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I just read about how the park district in boston is trying to remind people of the great islands that can be found in Boston Harbor. I must confess I'm intrigued by some of the names. The Graves, Nixes mate, World's End, Hangman Island.... they seem just crying out for a pirate festival, don't they? Of course, I've never been on the islands, and I don't know what they look like. Have you had the pleasure of exploring the islands? "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRehab Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Well Nix's Mate (we used to call it Agnew) Is not much more than a mark and a pile of rocks at low tide, but it does have a good pirate story associated with it. Georges Island has Ft Warren on it and is a lot of fun to play around. Lovells is fun, and Gallops is closed due to the amount of asbestos found from the ruins of the old military buildings. I really like Peddocks. It has all the potential of becoming a great place to go that Great Diamond island in Casco Bay (Portland Me.) has become. The buildings from the old fort are identical to those of Great Diamond and Cushing Islands of Maine. Spectacle used to be a dump and an old horse rendering plant. It smelled bad and had lots of rats. Today Spectacle is buried under tons of fill from the infamous Big Dig in Boston. The plan is to open the island again and I look forward to that day, hgowever it is not much more than a big grassy lump, and the anchorages are not nearly as good as Peddocks. Great Brewster can be accessed but not with a deep keel like my boat. Little Brester has Boston light which can be visited at certain times. The outer Islands like Green, Calf, and the Graves are not inviting, and may be off limits, but I wouldn't go there even if they were not. There is a bit of a landing place on Outer Brewster that I may visit next year. For more info check out http://www.fbhi.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Thanks for the link! I read about the islands a few months ago in Smithsonian magazine. It's nice to get a little more information than the pretty map in the magazine allows. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 hey Great Diamond Island is just offshore from my home here in South Portland! Beautiful, fun place to hang out. Fort Georges, Fort Williams, etc...all are very cool, but never saw any action. Btw - isn't Nix's Mate where they hung William Fly and other pirates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRehab Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 On Friday, June 30th, 1704 Capt Quelch and six others were executed and it it uncertain if they were then gibbeted on Nix's mate or Bird Island. Captain William Fly was supposed to have been gibbeted there after his execution on July 12th 1726, along with Samuel Cole, and Henry Greenvill. Edward Rowe Snow believed he found remains of the iron bands on Nix's mate some twoo hundres years later. That is all I was able to find in my nautical library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Well, if Nix's Mate is really nothing more than a small pile of rocks AND it's stained with pirate blood, I think it's thoroughly unsuitable for fesitivities. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Being a true mariner a pilot is just what you thought, a local who knows the waterways like the back of their hands. The Panama Canal Pilots Association has rigid requirments for becoming a pilot and 10 different grades of pilots. A grade 1 pilot is a pilot that can only go on small vessels for a transit through the canal. A grade 10 Master Pilot is the only pilot that can transit Panamax ships. The different grades are determined by experience. Going from grade 1 to grade 2 is something like after 100 transits. Also on Panamax ships in addition to having a master pilot in charge you also will have 2 additional pilots to act as assistants (eyes) to the master Pilot. Once on board the pilot assumes all responsibility for the vessel that they are piloting. While the Nav-Rules say the master is not exempted from being responsible when a pilot is on board they really are to a certain extent. One of my favorite transits of the Canal with a pilot was when I was operating an Army LCM through the canal and the only pilot they had available was a Master Pilot. Kinda overkill in my opinion. Most small craft assigned to the Army while we had bases in Panama did not require a pilot however around 1997 even our smallest LCM required a pilot. For the most part the lower grade pilots are more a problem than the upper grade pilots. The lower grade pilots get a little cocky and actually think they know my LCM better than I do and just want me to follow the herd at the 8 knot safe speed throughout the canal. I'd prefer to cruise on past all traffic drop the hook and be kicking back some cold ones or grabbing a combat nap while waiting hours for the rest of the ships to arrive, maybe even get our lockage time bumped up to be able to leave earlier than planned sometimes too. Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 One more thing, as one of the qualifications to being a pilot in the canal you must go to a locally based Panama Canal Pilot School and learn how to pilot various ships. They have an excellent simulator for different ships and have programed in various different maneuvering characteristics. One of the final tests the potential pilots must pass is a blank chart of the 50 mile stretch of the canal with no compass rose nor depth markings. The students must correctly label the entire chart with all depths, courses, speeds, geographical markings, buoys, times, speeds, passing points, etc... Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 What would be the grade of the pilot that piloted the Lady Washington through the Panama Canal (as in "Diary of a Ship" in the POTC DVD) ? Red Maria The Soul of Indecency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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