Capn_Enigma Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 This is a 17th century gunner's level and sight: How is this device used? I know that the plumb bob and angle to the right is for measuring the depression/ elevation of the cannon. What I do not understand is the extractable ruler to the left. My best guess is that it is a sight for the various pieces' calibers (12 pounder, 24 pounder etc) and that it probably was placed on the breech of the piece, but the exact function of this device eludes me. And how does the second scale "1, 2" etc. fit in? Can anyone provide more precise information? "The floggings will continue until morale improves!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 The ruler would be to gauge distance to the target. The small hole on the top piece is cut into a "V" groove site which would be used for the initial lay of the cannon, then you would guesstimate the range to the target and set the elevation by use of a charge book for your specific piece of artillery, the pendulum is used for that, then the final sighting and aiming is done by sliding the ruler sight to the proper distance mark and "Boom. Locate your first shot impact and make notes, adjust, fire again and it continues til you blow 'em to smithereens! I think? I was a mortar man with the 101st for 6 years so I kinda get the principle behind what they would need. A lot of Kentucky windage and luck helps too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 What you have there is a late 17th c. gunners backsight and level. It works this way: You are looking at the back of the sight, as you would if you were using it. The quadrat would be oriented on the right as it is in this picture. In order for a sight to work, it must always be aligned vertically to allow for adjustments in elevation. That is what the plumb bob is for, to level the gun side to side, orienting the sight to the absolute top of the gun. The "slide" part works in the same way as a rifle sight does: the taller it is the higher the elevation is on the gun. For a given charge, and to a certain maximum, the higher the elevation the farther the shot will go. Sighting through the top, teardrop shaped hole and aligning the foresight with the target would have given the "lay" or direction to the target but not the elevation. That would have been worked out in advance for any given distance and drop or rise in terrain. To do this, the gunner would have worked with his gun and crew to create a range table, recording the range for each charge and elevation. Variations in distance would have been made by adjusting both charge and elevation in concert. So set up and firing would go like this 1 Set up and level gun (using pendulum) 2 Determine lay by aligning fore- and backsight 3 Determine distance to target 4 Dial in elevation on backsight for selected shot/charge/distance combination 5 Elevate gun using fore- and backsight /adjust lay 6 Charge and fire gun 7 Adjust as needed 8 Repeat until the other guys give up Mind you this set-up is only good for land use, where the motion of a ship would not interfere with all of the above. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Excelent discription Capt. Jim! Done this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Occasionally, but right now between cannon. Built a house instead. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Needed a target 'eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Right. If I shoot the house, I get to be next, courtesy of Blackwater Patti. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 that's why my ex's always got the house .....and i had to keep moving my arsenal ....now dating a 25 year old f&i /pyrate re-enacter she wants me for my weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Now that is exactly how to make a relationship last: find the girl who wants what you are, not what they can make of you. And if you have lots of pointy things and loud noisy things they like to play with, they'll keep you around just to carry the stuff for them. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Amen Brother! Can I get a witness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Preach it Brothers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 that's why my ex's always got the house .....and i had to keep moving my arsenal ....now dating a 25 year old f&i /pyrate re-enacter she wants me for my weapons WHICH weapons ? Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Yea, which ones? Start yer braggin mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hearted Pearl Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 We like to make long barrels explode and if you have more than one, all the more fun! ~Black Hearted Pearl The optimist expects the wind. The pessimist complains about the wind. The realist adjusts the sails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 OUTSTANDING!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Would this "Gunner's Sight" be used on land as well during wars? It would make sense to me. Why should it only be used to guage the distance and all when firing upon an opponent on the seas? Why not on land when war demands the attempt to be accurate (even though it was far from accurate at times). Someone would have to be VERY good to use one of those very quickly especially during a battle. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Drill and practice make all the difference in the world Lovely LadyBarbossa, you'd be surprised that 14 infantrymen can enter a helicopter with all their equipment in under 10 seconds after drilling for about an hour. They trained hard being their lives depended on it. And I'm sure the sight could easily be use on land, actually I bet that's what it was originally designed for. Beautiful piece of workmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Lady B, these were only used on land as the motion of a ship would have made all of your calculations/settings no good. Nelson was offered these and refused tham, saying something to the effect that at the point-blank range of a naval battle they weren't needed. As for speed, there are six to as many as ten people manning a cannon and limber during a battle, at least until some get picked off by shrapnel, gunfire and running away scared. A crew can locate a cannon and fire off a first shot in under a minute. A fast crew could do it in 30 seconds. Reload and adjust in 15 seconds. These were teams that trained together and knew the dance, and could do most of it not in sequence as I described but in concert/simultaneously in one fluid motion, all under the hawklike supervision of the gun captain. Ship cannons take slightly longer, as they have to be moved about more than land artillary, and you have ot load them while on your knees. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn_Enigma Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 I have also posted this question on two other forums and I finally received the answer that I was looking for. I have bought a similar item made by Franklin Mint on ebay, but without the instructions. Someone there had the instructions and mailed them to me. I am posting them here so that anyone reading this thread will have a definite answer to my initial question, and not an open end. Gunner's LevelInstructions for Use The Gunner's Level was designed to assist the user of a large mounted gun or cannon in "laying" his gun, that is, in aiming it and correcting its elevation to achieve an accurate shot. To use the angle measurement, the level was placed on the gun so the foot ( A ) laid lengthwise on a plain part of the barrel with the plumb bob ( B ) hanging freely to indicate the angle of the barrel on the curved scale ( C ). If the shot, when fired, fell short, for example, the angle of the gun could be increased in a controlled way by constantly consulting the level for a coarse adjustment. As the gunner drew closer to the desired result, he would then turn the level square to himself on the back end of the gun straddled across the barrel. It could then be effectively used as an adjustable back sight to measure the elevation of the gun by setting one of the instrument sight holes ( D ) in line with the target. The sight scale ( D ) has four holes to suit the convenience and experi-ence of the gunner and make it possible to use the sight over a consid-erable range of elevations and with a variety of guns. "The floggings will continue until morale improves!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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